LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 01 - Minas Tirith

[Firefoot]

Originally posted by Lalwendë:
Pippin is still impulsive, as shown in his eagerness to speak to Denethor, despite Gandalf warning him what he ought not to say; he does not seem to believe in waiting to be spoken to. Likewise, when he is assigned to Beregond for the morning, his first question is to ask where he might get some food. Beregond himself informs Pippin of his status in the hierarchy of Minas Tirith, and he is well respected, but Pippin does not restrict his manner of speech. He wants to know as much as possible, and through his eager talk we too get to know all about the city.

I'm not sure that impulsive is the right word to use. Certainly, Pippin is curious and outspoken, but he has come a long way from the "ridiculous young Took who was giving a comic account of Bilbo's farewell party" at the Prancing Pony. Pippin is now much more wary of his own speech and actions. He must be careful in talking to Denethor, and he is mindful of himself during his meal with the Third Company. He has matured a great deal, and I think his encounter with the Palantír helped a great deal with this. To me, your examples seem more like the normal actions of his personality: friendly, outspoken, almost too bold, but impulsive? I'm not so sure. The one action of his that I might call impulsive is his swearing of service, but he seems to have thought about this already, as he states to Ingold.

Originally posted by Formendacil:
Now I realise that it was the force of Denethor's powerful personality shining through that must have been the major influence on Pippin's reaction, but I still wonder: before the quest, how did Pippin mentally imagine a "great wizard". And one must remember that Gandalf was really only known for his fireworks, etc, in the Shire, and not for being a great wizard.

I think you already answered your own question, at least in part. As Pippin tells Beregond, he has known of Gandalf all his life. He knows that Gandalf is powerful, but it still hasn't really hit home. In some ways, to Pippin Gandalf is still the "friendly neighborhood wizard who makes great fireworks." Saruman fit his bill for a "great wizard," if a fallen one, and so now does Denethor. Part of this is, like Mithalwen said, an aura of authority. Another part, I think, is an aura of real power, and in Denethor's case nobility. Gandalf is almost too familiar to Pippin for him to associate these things with him.

I also agree very much with Enca's and Boromir's points on the stewardship line. It's one of my favorites.

"Do you think that I do not understand your purpose in questioning for an hour one who knows the least, while I sit by?"

"If you understand it, then be content," returned Denethor. "Pride would be folly taht disdained help and counsel at need; but you deal out such gifts according to your own designs. Yet the Lord of Gondor is not to be made the tool of other men's purposes, however worthy."

This part of the exchange has always seemed rather cryptic to me. It is rather interesting that Denethor would question Pippin so closely while Gandalf could tell him much more. I have always interpreted the reason to be mostly Denethor's pride, knowing that while he might get less information from Pippin, it would probably be more honest and uncensored, whereas Gandalf's would be very guarded. Thoughts?

[Lhunardawen]

That, Firefoot, and the fact that Denethor and Gandalf have always disagreed on a great many things. It's as if in exchange for the information Gandalf would have given, Denethor knows for sure that he would be used by Gandalf to fulfill his own goals. We have already seen that Gandalf and Denethor "love" Gondor in different ways, therefore they have different ways of protecting it. Denethor would rather spend an hour questioning Pippin who knows less, knowing that he can do nothing about what he says, instead of asking Gandalf for news and having to risk giving him authority to act upon them indirectly.

EDIT: Oh, and it would be easier for Denethor to read Pippin's mind, so he would get more than what Pippin actually says.

[Celuien]

Originally posted by Mithalwen:

Now superficially Gandalf might have appeared the least imposing of them all.

Originally posted by Lalwendë:

Here we have the youthful Hobbit talking to the seasoned soldier of Gondor and it is the latter who is less experienced. Beregond has been charged with showing Pippin the ways of Minas Tirith, but the hobbit ends up impressing the older man with his tales of Middle Earth.

It just occurred to me that this might be part of a recurring theme that things aren't always as they seem. When we first encounter Aragorn in Bree, he doesn't appear to be a likely candidate to become King. Hobbits are the last inhabitants of Middle Earth that would be expected to bring about the downfall of Sauron. "All that is gold does not glitter."

[Firefoot]

Indeed. Don't forget Pippin's:

"For when you are older, you will learn that folk are not always what they seem; and though you may have taken me for a stranger-lad and easy prey, let me warn you: I am not, I am a halfling, hard, bold, and wicked!" Pippin pulled such a grim face that the boy stepped back a pace, but at once he returned with clenched fists and the light of battle in his eye.

"No!" Pippin laughed. "Don't believe what strangers say of themselves either! I am not a fighter."

This chapter is full of instances on how people are not always what they seem.

[davem]

Taking the events of the chapter in order, I think this was the first thing that stood out:

'It is long since the beacons of the North were lit,' he said; 'and in the ancient days of Gondor they were not needed, for they had the Seven Stones.' Pippin stirred uneasily.

It seems that Gondor is moving backwards, devolving from a time when they had a high tech signalling & communications system to one when they were dependent on a very ‘primitive’ means of summoning help. Yet, what we also see is the fading of ‘magical’ means, of Elven ‘technology’, & the increasing use of mundane means. Beacons don’t need superior will in their employment. This movement away from magic can perhaps be seen as a development, an evolution, as anyone can light a fire. We are actually seeing a movement away from dependence on a few gifted individuals to save Gondor to a society where individual merit will determine the future of the realm. But this also places the Gondorians in a very precarious position when facing an enemy who employs magical means to fight. The appearance of the Nazgul brings terror & loss of heart, & only magic can bring them down, whether that’s the power of Gandalf, or of Merry’s Barrow blade, ‘wound about with spells for the destruction of Mordor’. Soon, the magic will pass away, & maybe part of the reason Gondor survives & thrives is that it has found a way of living without it.

Gandalf passed now into the wide land beyond the Rammas Echor. So the men of Gondor called the out-wall that they had built with great labour, after Ithilien fell under the shadow of their Enemy.

Shippey compares the Rammas to teh Maginot Line, Lewis & Currie in ‘The Uncharted Realms of Tolkien’, to the ‘Star Wars’ satelite defence system. Basically, they see these things as ‘defences’ which ultimately prove useless & massively expensive ‘white elephants’, which fail at the test, & are particularly dangerous because of the faith placed in them. Gandalf’s words are telling: ‘But leave your trowels and sharpen your swords!' Basically, he is telling them that their own courage & willingness to defend what they love is what will save them, & that faith placed in ‘things’ is most likely to lull them into a false sense of security & lead them to complacency.

Yet the herdsmen and husbandmen that dwelt there were not many, and the most part of the people of Gondor lived in the seven circles of the City, or in the high vales of the mountain-borders, in Lossarnach, or further south in fair Lebennin with its five swift streams.

I was surprised when I first read this - it seems Gondor is not all that densely populated. They cannot defend themselves. Rohan is vital to their survival, not because they lack courage, but because they lack numbers. But even in the Gondorians the blood of Numenor is not ‘pure’. Numenor is passing away - for good or ill - & will soon become a memory:

There dwelt a hardy folk between the mountains and the sea. They were reckoned men of Gondor, yet their blood was mingled, and there were short and swarthy folk among them whose sires came more from the forgotten men who housed in the shadow of the hills in the Dark Years ere the coming of the kings.

I can’t help feeling that this is part & parcel of the change indicated by the use of the beacons. Neither the replacement of the Palantiri with beacons, nor the fading of Numeorean blood were wished or intended, but both will have a ‘liberating’ effect on the people of Middle earth. We are also told later that :

Yet it was in truth falling year by year into decay; and already it lacked half the men that could have dwelt at ease there. In every street they passed some great house or court over whose doors and arched gates were carved many fair letters of strange and ancient shapes: names Pippin guessed of great men and kindreds that had once dwelt there; and yet now they were silent, and no footstep rang on their wide pavements, nor voice was heard in their halls, nor any face looked out from door or empty window.

For the fashion of Minas Tirith was such that it was built on seven levels, each delved into the hill, and about each was set a wall, and in each wall was a gate. But the gates were not set in a line: the Great Gate in the City Wall was at the east point of the circuit, but the next faced half south, and the third half north, and so to and fro upwards; so that the paved way that climbed towards the Citadel turned first this way and then that across the face of the hill. And each time that it passed the line of the Great Gate it went through an arched tunnel, piercing a vast pier of rock whose huge out-thrust bulk divided in two all the circles of the City save the first. For partly in the primeval shaping of the hill, partly by the mighty craft and labour of old, there stood up from the rear of the wide court behind the Gate a towering bastion of stone, its edge sharp as a ship-keel facing east. Up it rose, even to the level of the topmost circle, and there was crowned by a battlement; so that those in the Citadel might, like mariners in a mountainous ship, look from its peak sheer down upon the Gate seven hundred feet below. The entrance to the Citadel also looked eastward, but was delved in the heart of the rock; thence a long lamp-lit slope ran up to the seventh gate. Thus men reached at last the High Court, and the Place of the Fountain before the feet of the White Tower: tall and shapely, fifty fathoms from its base to the pinnacle, where the banner of the Stewards floated a thousand feet above the plain.

Going back to something LMP said in the ‘Tolkien the Artist’ thread, it seems that Minas Tirith itself is almost like a three dimensional ‘mandala’. It is circular, obviously, but I also wonder about the symbolism of ‘seven’ here. ‘Seven stars & seven stones & one white tree’. Why seven levels? In medieval astronomy there were seven ‘planets’ - Sun, Moon, Mercury, venus, Mars, Saturn & Jupiter. I also note that ‘those in the Citadel might, like mariners in a mountainous ship, look from its peak sheer down upon the Gate seven hundred feet below.’

The guards of the gate were robed in black, and their helms were of strange shape, high-crowned, with long cheek-guards close-fitting to the face, and above the cheek-guards were set the white wings of sea-birds; but the helms gleamed with a flame of silver, for they were indeed wrought of mithril, heirlooms from the glory of old days. Upon the black surcoats were embroidered in white a tree blossoming like snow beneath a silver crown and many-pointed stars. This was the livery of the heirs of Elendil, and none wore it now in all Gondor, save the Guards of the Citadel before the Court of the Fountain where the White Tree once had grown.

Yet again, we are told of the fading of Gondor. It is a place of memory - but it is also backward looking, unable to move forward. Men in ancient armour guard a dead tree while war approaches.

It has already been pointed out that Gandalf ‘condems’ Denethor’s questioning of Pippin rather than he himself,

You can use even your grief as a cloak. Do you think that I do not understand your purpose in questioning for an hour one who knows the least, while I sit by?'

but Gandalf had already predicted this would be the case before they entered the hall:

But he will speak most to you, and question you much, since you can tell him of his son Boromir. He loved him greatly: too much perhaps; and the more so because they were unlike. But under cover of this love he will think it easier to learn what he wishes from you rather than from me. Do not tell him more than you need, and leave quiet the matter of Frodo's errand. I will deal with that in due time. And say nothing about Aragorn either, unless you must.'

Gandalf knows Denethor too well.

Finally, for now, we have Pippin’s oath. As has been pointed out, all four Hobbits swear an oath of service - Sam to Frodo, Frodo to the Council, Merry to Theoden & Pippin, here, to Denethor. They all commit themselves to the service of an individual, apart from Frodo, who swears service to a ‘mission’, if I can put it that way. Their oaths bind them, but only Frodo is broken by the oath he swears.

[Lathriel]

Note about the opening. It starts right from where the third book left off. With this I think Tolkien wanted to make it clear that LOTR is indeed one book and not three like some people think it is.

Merry and Pippin were minor characters in the other books but in this one they are drawn into the foreground. Of course in this chapter it is Pippin. I really like that because before the reader wasn't given much of a chance to learn much.
When first reading LOTR I really got to like Pippin in this chapter. I already liked him before but in this chapter I liked seeing how he matured.

When he first came to power Denethor might have accepted the fact that as a steward he wouldn't be the main power in Minas Tirith all his life. But as he got older and no heir appeared he might have begun to think of himself as the "King". Than when he began to look in the Palantir I think Sauron took advantage of this thought or belief and used it to bring Denethor under his spell. Eventually I am sure that Sauron also used Boromir's death to break Denethor. Overall it is a nasty business.

When I read the description of Gondor I immediatly got the impression that the city was in its decline and that all its inhabitants know it too. Faramir mentioned it in Ithilien as well and part of his hope was to see the city restored to its former glory. This state of decay makes the need for victory even more urgent. Or at least that was the feeling I got (which made me read faster ). If evil isn't defeated quickly it could succeed.

The fact that Mordor's shadow is growing rapidly is noticed by everybody's behaviour. It can be noticed by how suspicious the guards at the gate are towards Pippin. Also through this whole chapter there is an stifling atmosphere created by the way things are described and how people act. This chapter saddens me too because it is obvious that Gondor was glorious, and that the decay is now spreading quickly. Actually Moria gives me this same feeling as well. The sadness due to the loss of something great.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I'm not sure that impulsive is the right word to use. Certainly, Pippin is curious and outspoken, but he has come a long way from the "ridiculous young Took who was giving a comic account of Bilbo's farewell party" at the Prancing Pony. Pippin is now much more wary of his own speech and actions. He must be careful in talking to Denethor, and he is mindful of himself during his meal with the Third Company. He has matured a great deal, and I think his encounter with the Palantír helped a great deal with this. To me, your examples seem more like the normal actions of his personality: friendly, outspoken, almost too bold, but impulsive? I'm not so sure. The one action of his that I might call impulsive is his swearing of service, but he seems to have thought about this already, as he states to Ingold.

Pippin certainly seems driven to speak or to act when his pride is slighted. He is laughed about by the men at the Rammas Echor when Gandalf refers to him as a Man. He is at first referred to as a Dwarf, and then his bravery in relation to his size is questioned. This slight on him certainly leads him to be impulsive enough to reveal that Boromir is dead, which Gandalf is not pleased about (though it seems that the men of Gondor are suspicious of this in any case).

Pippin is stirred to speak by his pride, which is not misplaced if we remember what he has been through; he is indignant at the suggestion he is not as brave as any Man. The encounter with the Palantir has not entirely humbled him or he would not act and speak in this way. This is a good thing or Pippin would not have had the sense of pride to be hurt, the memory of having been in great peril, that would eventually prompt him into swearing his oath. Seeing the broken horn seems to stir some great emotion within him and even though he may have had the idea of service, of paying something back for Boromir's death in mind, it takes the catalyst of seeing the broken horn to prompt his oath. I think his growing maturity is more of a process, brought on not just by the Palantir, but by learning just what it means to take an oath and enter into service.

Maybe impulsive is too strong a term, certainly seen in the light of Gollum's impulsiveness in the previous book, but Pippin is certainly not cool and calculated. He is emotionally moved by the sight of Boromir's broken horn in the hands of Denethor, moved by the sight of a father in grief, and coupled with the sense that his own bravery is being questioned, he is prompted to speak and act. In this chapter I think we see that Pippin is very much the young man, in that he wishes to appear capable and brave, but he also wears his feelings on his sleeve and has a great intelligence. Probably more than being impulsive, I think he is simply a little unpredictable, as Gandalf finds out to his pleasant surprise.

a towering bastion of stone, its edge sharp as a ship-keel facing east.

those in the Citadel might, like mariners in a mountainous ship, look from its peak sheer down upon the Gate seven hundred feet below.

the White Tower: tall and shapely, fifty fathoms from its base to the pinnacle, where the banner of the Stewards floated a thousand feet above the plain.

their helms were of strange shape, high-crowned, with long cheek-guards close-fitting to the face, and above the cheek-guards were set the white wings of sea-birds;

With that Gandalf went out; and as he did so, there came the note of a clear sweet bell ringing in a tower of the citadel. Three strokes it rang, like silver in the air, and ceased: the third hour from the rising of the sun.

I noticed the maritime images in this chapter as being quite curious. Does this hark back to the maritime Numenorean heritage of Gondor? Minas Tirith seems to be described as though it is a great ship, moored to Mindolluin. There is no sea for it to sail off into, and its inhabitants do not have the urge to leave it, but it seems as though one of their ancestors' great ships has been moored here for the future generations to dwell in.

Even the ringing of the hourly bell echoes maritime tradition and the uniforms of the guards include sea bird emblems. Is this tradition intentional, to remind them of their past? We even get a hint here of the shape of Numenorean ships; they are not swan-prowed like Elven ships, but are of the shape we are more used to.