If they still had Gandalf...

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I think what we would need to think about first would be these questions: What if the Balrog and the Goblins of Moria did come after the fellowship

My big question is how the Balrog would get out in the first place - if I were a Dwarf, I would make entrances (or at least some of them) dwarf height so that those taller than men would have some discomfort entering...just how big are their doorways in that Smaug can run around at will?

Well, anyway, the goblins would have been put off by the light somewhat. The Balrog could have pursued the Fellowship, but then again, it may have been happy just driving them out of Moria.

Gandalf could have sealed the entrance of Moria against pursuit, and the strain of the same could have 'killed' him. He gets buried in the rubble and after some brief mourning, the Fellowship-1 goes to Lothlorien. Gandalf then could be unburied by the 'moles of Manwe' and thereby become Gandalf the White.

Would Lorien be burned?

Surely if Galadriel could withstand the might of Mordor, she and her people could withstand a bunch of orcs and a Balrog.

Would Gandalf die anyway?

Gandalf has to die; the story just isn't as interesting with him aiding Frodo's decision. Plus, when you initially read the story, you start really thinking as a major character dies - where's TTT?!? Does Gandalf survive the fall? What a 'cliffhanger!'

What would happen to the rest of the Fellowship?

Same as before, unless we would want to start a new story...you could have the Balrog pursue the Fellowship out of Moria towards Lothlorien, and Boromir could start imploring Frodo to use the Ring on the Balrog. Frodo of course would not do so, and the strife seen at Parth Galen could show itself here. The Balrog and orcs, finally catching up with the Fellowship, attack and in the disorder Sam and Frodo could become separated from the other members of the Fellowship. This could be Gandalf's plan - to allow Frodo to escape - while he and the others take on the enemy. The Galadhrim could show up unexpectedly and aid the good guys - even helping Sam and Frodo into boats? Again I would have Gandalf sell himself by taking on the Balrog. Both could drown in a river or something. Gandalf would be rescued by the 'fishes of Ulmo.'

and What would happen to Galadriel and Celeborn?

Surely nothing that would get them overly excited, as when you're as old as these two, you've seen just about everything twice.

[Glirdan]

Has anybody else thought of this question??? What do you think would have happened if Gandalf wasn't held captive by Saruman?

In my opinion, Gandalf would have made it back to Bag-End before Frodo and Co. left for Crickhollow and probably would have left as soon as he reached Bag-End seeing as he knew the Nine Riders were out and abroad. Therefor, they would probably have not left through the Dark Forest, never met Tom Bombadill (who was, sadly, left out of the movies) reached Bree earlier and possibly not have met Aragorn until later and by the time they reached Weathertop, they would not have ran into the Black Riders and Fordo would not have his shoulder wound. Then they would have reached Rivendell without any problems and this is where it gets tricky. Would they have left Rivendell before Boromir or Legolas or Gimli and Gloin or any of the others who were part of the Council of Elrond arrived???? I would really like to hear others opinion on this because this question has been burning in my mind since I reread the FotR.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Has anybody else thought of this question??? What do you think would have happened if Gandalf wasn't held captive by Saruman?

Problem with that senario is that Gandalf would never known to think Saruman was a traitor which would have horrible implications that could only be left to complete speculation.

[Glirdan]

How about this than: What if Gandalf guessed that, from what Radagast reported to him, that Saruman turned traitor.

OR

get rid of my other theory and start over with a different question which is: what if Gandalf sent the letter to Frodo himself? Than, he could have gone to Isengard and still have been held captive and then the rest of what I said in my other post happens except for the fact that Gandalf is not part of the group.

[AragornII]

So, if Gandalf doesn't know that Saruman is a traitor, then the Fellowship would probably have taken the Gap of Rohan over the Misty Mountains, thereby not even going to Moria in the first place. Now it could get even more interesting. We could have Saruman send out some Uruk-hai to capture them, and then instead of a batle with Moria orcs, it's with Uruk-hai, which would make the battle more interesting. Assuming they survive that, and Saruman for some reason doesn't pursue them (or maybe he does ), where would they go?

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by AragornII

So, if Gandalf doesn't know that Saruman is a traitor, then the Fellowship would probably have taken the Gap of Rohan over the Misty Mountains, thereby not even going to Moria in the first place. Now it could get even more interesting. We could have Saruman send out some Uruk-hai to capture them, and then instead of a batle with Moria orcs, it's with Uruk-hai, which would make the battle more interesting. Assuming they survive that, and Saruman for some reason doesn't pursue them (or maybe he does ), where would they go?

They would probably head straight to Edoras seeing as it's the closest place of refugee and this time they would be welcome because Boromir would be there and Gandalf wouldn't know what happened to Theoden and wouldn't know what kind of welcome they'd get. Very good thought.

[AragornII]

Do you think that Theoden would not have been as "sick" as he was? Or maybe it would have been before Eomer was banished. He might even decide to go with them!!! Hey, now there's a new idea. That could change tons of things. Now I have to think some more on this.