Hurin the Wraith

[Kuruharan]

You have a good point about the nature of Morgoth's power over Hurin as opposed to Sauron's power over the Ringwraiths. However, this line is very difficult...

and never shalt thou move from this place until all is fulfilled unto its bitter end.

The Sil

This brings up the question of if Morgoth knew that Hurin's children would all be dead before the end of Hurin's own life. It has also occured to me that the reason why Morgoth let Hurin go is because Hurin was about to die anyway.

However, the above line does not cause nearly the problems as this one...

There he was bound by the power of Morgoth; and Morgoth standing beside him cursed him again and set his power upon him, so that he could not move from that place, nor die, until Morgoth should release him.

The UT

There may be a reason why this line was not included in The Sil. CT may have seen the problem or JRRT before him and decided that Morgoth's curse needed a little rewriting.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

A central problem with Morgoth's curse is its seeming interference with
a key aspect of Middle-earth, free will.

As for Morgoth's observation about Hurin not dying, could he have
seen aspects of Hurin's fate in the Music of the (Ainur?)? Perhaps then
"curses" and "prophecies" might be a recognition by individuals now dwelling in Middle-earth of aspects of the Music, or Morgoth's meddling discordencies, rather then an active intervention towards individuals in Middle-earth? (More like reading a book as opposed to writing it).

[Saurreg]

Originally Posted by Tuor of Gondolin

A central problem with Morgoth's curse is its seeming interference with
a key aspect of Middle-earth, free will.

I am not sure where you are heading here. But everybody sentient being on ME would possess a certain degree of self-awareness and exercise free will. However when confronted by a force majeure that free will is easily suppressed.

As for Morgoth's observation about Hurin not dying, could he have
seen aspects of Hurin's fate in the Music of the (Ainur?)? Perhaps then
"curses" and "prophecies" might be a recognition by individuals now dwelling in Middle-earth of aspects of the Music, or Morgoth's meddling discordencies, rather then an active intervention towards individuals in Middle-earth? (More like reading a book as opposed to writing it).

This comment is very similar in content to the discussion in this thread.

I nevertheless still submit that Hurin's fate was altered by the active intervention by Morgoth more than anything else. Though the same might have befell Huor if he was the one who survived instead of his brother.

[Kuruharan]

As for Morgoth's observation about Hurin not dying, could he have
seen aspects of Hurin's fate in the Music

It is a thought but I doubt it. The Children came after the part of the Music that the Ainur participated in. None of the Valar really understood the Children very well. If any of them clearly understood the fate of any of the Children I would think it would be Mandos rather than Morgoth.

Perhaps then
"curses" and "prophecies" might be a recognition by individuals now dwelling in Middle-earth of aspects of the Music, or Morgoth's meddling discordencies, rather then an active intervention towards individuals in Middle-earth?

In spite of what I said above, I find this idea rather attractive. However, given what I said above I'm not sure how that would work.

I nevertheless still submit that Hurin's fate was altered by the active intervention by Morgoth more than anything else.

I'm inclined to agree. However, this gets back to the original problem. None of the Valar had the power to deny death to Men yet Sauron did it and I believe the implication is that Morgoth had the power to do so as well. Does this mean that the Valar had the technical ability to keep Men from dying to this world but their loyalty to Eru prevented them from exercising this power?

[Saurreg]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I'm inclined to agree. However, this gets back to the original problem. None of the Valar had the power to deny death to Men yet Sauron did it and I believe the implication is that Morgoth had the power to do so as well. Does this mean that the Valar had the technical ability to keep Men from dying to this world but their loyalty to Eru prevented them from exercising this power?

That could very well be the case. Remember the choices given to Elros and Elrond. The very right to grant immortal life was made at the sole discretion of the Valars alone without consultation to Illuvatar. Therefore I think it was very possible for them to be ably to control the longevity and indeed the very nature of individuals.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

"Remember the choices given to Elros and Elrond. The very right to grant immortal life was made at the sole discretion of the Valars alone without consultation to Illuvatar. Therefore I think it was very possible for them to be ably to control the longevity and indeed the very nature of individuals."
-----------------------

Very interesting speculation, but I don't recall a definitive statement that the
Valar acted independently of Eru in the matter of the half-elven. Is there some reference? My impression/assumption has always been that it was Eru's
decision, wth the Valar acting as intermediaries, but that's only an inference on my part.

[Kuruharan]

Very interesting speculation, but I don't recall a definitive statement that the
Valar acted independently of Eru in the matter of the half-elven.

I doubt if they did act independently. That is part of their gig is to obey the will of Eru.

That is possibly why Morgoth and Sauron were able to do what they did is that they had tried to break as many ties with Eru's restrictions as possible, this could include not meddling with the lifespans of the Children.