Gandalf Vs. The Witch King

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

As I said, Gandalf was not in the least Modest, and would state exactly what he meant and wanted whenever he could. Here, to me, he seems DOUBTFUL as to whether he could have stopped the WK's attack on Thedoen. Hopeful, yes, but not CERTAIN (and that is what I was trying to explain). And why would Gandalf state the obvious anyway? Of course Theoden could have been killed by arrow, etc, but that's War. It could have happened to anyone, and for Gandalf to say this would seem redundant.

Maybe Gandalf, like Galadriel, is aware of what could happen. He may have known that if he turned aside from the task of saving Faramir that a worse outcome would have resulted. And even knowing this, he still might have felt some guilt knowing that if he were at Thoeden's side that things may have turned out differently for Theoden and Eowyn. Can't be everywhere at once.

And for the millionth time (but maybe the first for Valar), we are talking about what the Director and co had to do from a 'Movie' point of view. Having the WK ride in on a horse, speak a few words to Gandalf and then leave again would not have worked on film (as it DOES in the book). We needed a 'cliffhanger' , tension etc, and to show that the Rohirrim SAVED the DAY. This is how they chose to do it.

Yep. In the movie there is no indication that Gandalf's presence on the battlefield would have made one whit of difference. Surely he is shown as a capable captain of men. After the staff-breaking he was reduced a leader who could wield a sword and do a few card tricks...

Note that I love the Rohirrim 'attack' scene - it's pretty emotional. PJ could have done something similar with Gandalf if he wanted to show him in a greater role - the gate scene wasn't as emotional.

Doesn't Gandalf 'down' one of the trolls? Have to review the scene again, but I think that he does. Note that though the Rohirrim save the day, they did not face any trolls.

And regarding the Rohirrim (and maybe this is another thread), was it the best thing for Theoden to line up his forces and meet the mumakil charge head on? I would have split up a bit and try to flank them.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Valar

Gandalf is an Marai exactly the same as Sauron himself but is not permited to use all of his power which was part of the bargin of the chossen wizards coming to middle earth. He is without question more powerful than the witch king....But all would know this if they really read the book and not just take what they want from words within and creat their own meanings

It is important to remember that the films do not portray the same story as that told in the book. Nor do they feature precisely the same characters. As far as I can recall, there is no reference in the films to Maiar, let alone any explanation of what they were.

There is little indication in the films that Gandalf is anything more than a Mannish wizard, albeit a very powerful one. Given the suggestion (for which there is book justification) that the Witch-king was "powered up" before the assault on Gondor and in light of what Essex points out concerning the film needing a major "baddie", I see no reason why, in the film, the Witch-king (after his "power up") should not be seen as equal in power to Gandalf. And, as I have said before, even if one were to view Gandalf as the stronger, there is no particular reason why he should not be bettered by a weaker opponent.