Giggles

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, well, we could just have a standoff here!

Here's a little story for you, one which (by the sounds of things) you will end up despising me for but I'll take the chance anyway. My cousin was telling me of this guy who was hit by a car in the middle of a road. He slowly got up to his feet after a couple of minutes, and was promptly hit by another car. This story provoked the usual chorus of "Oh my god"s and "How terrible!"s but my cousin and I could not help but see the funny side.

Go ahead, shake your head in disgust.

That does sound like a Naked Gun style joke, and it would be hilarious in a comedy film, but I will certainly argue that it is also funny in real life. Of course it is easy for me to say that because I am completely detached from this person, and if it was someone I knew that was hit by the car then I would be horrified. However, the absurdity of the whole episode is funny. You can laugh and cry at something like that.

But I think I've gone off the rails a bit.....

Let's get back to Gimli. I think that even a witty and clever joke would have been slightly out of place in the Theoden-strategy scene, let alone a crude vulgar joke. Does anyone think that there is just too much humour in the films?

[mormegil]

I guess we are all rather intransigent on this point. I think in fiction something like that could be humorous but in real life it's tragic.

As far as there being too much humor in the movie I don't think it's there in excess. But the difference I see between us is what we think is meant to be humorous whether we find it so or not is different. So it's entirely dependent upon our perception as to whether or not it's funny. Again I didn't think Gimli's eructation was funny but I also didn't find it crude and vulgar. Could there have been better places to insert a burp? Yes. Could there have been worse? Again yes (i.e. Council of Elrond) but the reality of that is that Gimli did just get done eating and drinking, and despite their long and noble lineage he is a dwarf. What I mean to say is, elves are much more noble and regal than dwarves and therefore are much more likely to burp after dinner. Had I been director I don't think I would have put that in there but I don't see it as point in which PJ's humor is necessarily flawed.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

From what I described, the incident was not tragic. And death is not itself tragic either. Many deaths are comic.

But let's leave that particular scene alone. What about Gimli (yea, him again) trying to blow away the ghosts? I found that painful to watch. Was this comedy? I think it was included as comedy but maybe that's an assumption too far?

[Amrod the Hunter]

Well,some humour in the movie was inaprotiate,and Tolkien wouldn't be happy if he saw that,but remember,it's a movie.
And every good movie director doesn't make a movie only good-he puts in something that will attract people to the cinemas.
Battle scenes were for those who love action,Aragorns dreams about Arwen (which became boring-he dreams of her and he's back from dead if needed ) are for those who love romantics,and PJ made Gimli way he made him only to attract people who love comedy.
And,well...I find that some of his actions are funny,but not all of them,but that's ok.
The only thing that I dislike is the way PJ made Legolas-he is a street-skater.Both in TTT and ROTK he has to skate on something.
See,that's what I noticed to be bad.You noticed too much humour,so it's a matter of personal taste,and we can't argue about that.
(If we continue this tread I will have to add Eomer to the Buddy list-he's so good in defending his opinions )

[Bêthberry]

Eomer began by questioning humour in the movies that didn't exist in the books. And discussion has mainly focussed on movie-Gimli. I wonder if we can look at the question from a different perspective.

Are there any instances where Tolkien used a humorous portrayal in the books that were not carried over into the movies? If so, would this help us expand our consideration of humour and its purpose?

For my part, I have always regarded as funny the small exchange between Frodo and Lindir in the early chapter, "Many Meetings." It seems to me to be a stock joke about the insensitivity of races to other races. And the joke seems to be at the expense of the elves, although the elf in question doesn't think it is at his expense.

'What!' cried Bilbo. 'You can't tell which parts were mine, and which were the Dunadan's?'

'It is not easy for us to tell the difference between two mortals,' said the Elf.

'Nonsense, Lindir,' snorted Bilbo. 'If you can't distinguish between a Man and a Hobbit, your judgement is poorer than I imagined. They're as different as peas and apples.'

'Maybe. To sheep other sheep no doubt appear different.' laughed Lindoir. "Or to shepherds. But Mortals have not been our study. We have other business.'

So, is this Tolkien poking fun at the limitations of elven nature? And, if so, does Jackson ever set the elves up for jokes the way he sets Gimli up for jokes?

Why or why not?

Answer in less than 300 words, please.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Are there any instances where Tolkien used a humorous portrayal in the books that were not carried over into the movies? If so, would this help us expand our consideration of humour and its purpose?

....Answer in less than 300 words, please.

Ouch! That hurt's. But I'll give it a try.

Sometimes the humor is missing because the character or incident that generated the smile has been cut from the script. This can be clearly seen in the early parts of the movie. There is a certain amount of humor in these scenes but most of it has been concentrated on the characters of Pippin and Merry....perhaps excessively so? We also have some of Bilbo's humorous comments about his neighbors. But the actual neghbors have been cut. We no longer have scenes of hobbits digging for gold in the cellars, discussion of the "presents" that Bilbo earmarked for his various relatives, or, perhaps most critically, we are missing the confrontation with Lobelia and her husband, whom I do find both humerous and annoying.

It's interesting. PJ has left us with the pranksterism of Pippin and Merry (and how very different this Merry is than the efficient planner of the book). What we do lose is the layer of sarcastic humor--poking fun not only at hobbits but at ourselves. (An element, incidentally, which modern critics still fail to see.) Some of this gently sarcastic humor is preserved in Bilbo, but a great deal has been simply discarded.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

Ouch! That hurt's. But I'll give it a try.

So much for my self-deprecatory humour and the winking smilie I had originally included after that word please!

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Answer in less than 300 words, please.

I have been accused of setting up 'essay' topics and last night in chat Sauce was suggesting he is tired of writing long analyses. If you look at this thread, Child, you will quickly see who are the most verbose posters here. (In fact, this is just your first post here, so I couldn't have been referring to you.)

I guess I will just have to be more clear in making my humour understood!

And I think you are very right that so much of the humour concerning Bilbo and the poking fun at our own foibles has been left out. I wonder if Sauce or someone else can suggest why Jackson took the story more seriously in these points than Tolkien did.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

For my part, I have always regarded as funny the small exchange between Frodo and Lindir in the early chapter, "Many Meetings." It seems to me to be a stock joke about the insensitivity of races to other races. And the joke seems to be at the expense of the elves, although the elf in question doesn't think it is at his expense.

So, is this Tolkien poking fun at the limitations of elven nature? And, if so, does Jackson ever set the elves up for jokes the way he sets Gimli up for jokes?

Interesting. Never saw that 'scene' as particularly funny, or as meant to be funny. Just thought that it showed that Bilbo could speak such to an Elf (familiarity), and that the Elf (or elves) really didn't care that much about such nonsense.

And Frodo makes a joke regarding elven 'decisiveness' when he meets the traveling group in the Shire ("yes and no"). Think that PJ kept it simple with elves et al as he wanted to make sure that the films would be 'popular' . Elves were wise and aloof, hobbits earthy and amicable, etc.

An example for me where I think that PJ skipped out on some book humor was the 'Sam as the main conspirator' scene (in Buckland?).

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Sauce

In light of that comment, I shall try to keep this brief.

A loyer and his briefs. May they never be parted! Unless it is to re-tort.

Originally Posted by Sauce

But isn't much of this kind of comedy rooted in the observation of the (sometimes) ridiculous nature of the human condition? We find many things funny because we recognise something of ourselves or our own experiences of others in it.

Originally Posted by alatar

Interesting. Never saw that 'scene' as particularly funny, or as meant to be funny. Just thought that it showed that Bilbo could speak such to an Elf (familiarity), and that the Elf (or elves) really didn't care that much about such nonsense.

Sauce has suggested why I find that scene funny. It reminds me of the old claim about occidental racism concerning orientals. Europeans were said never to be able to tell Chinese apart. When viewing "the other", individuals could never be seen, only the broad difference. It is a manifestation of the elves's parochial nature and self-centeredness to be insensitive to or to lack curiosity about other races. I thought it was a funny way--highlighting a failure of human community--to demonstrate that elves weren't infallible. Whether Tolkien intended this to be funny I don't know. That doesn't stop me from laughing sardonically.