LotR -- Book 4 - Chapter 07 - Journey to the Cross-Roads

[Lathriel]

I actually like this chapter simlpy because of the crossroads. Probably because it is another one of those unexpected things. You are surprised when Faramir enters the story but afterwards you think its over with surprises because it seems pretty straightforward. Frodo and Sam go through Mordor and the ring is destroyed. You also assume that things will get darker and darker. They do but before that Frodo and Sam arrive at the crossroads and they see that the King has a crown.
It is not just a crown. Its a crown of flowers.Flowers don't only symbolize happiness and good(vs. evil). They are alive opposed to many things that side with evil.The things that ally themselves with evil are often half dead or twisted. These flowers are of course neither of those things. They are also white which symbolizes purity and a new beginning. Thus it gives a message of hope to the reader. I also cherish this moment because it is the last somewhat peaceful minute that Frodo and Sam will share before going through the Morgul vale.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Some very interesting thoughts here! Thanks for sharing them everyone.

Estelyn said

Do you savour the descriptions? What feeling do you get when you read it?

Actually, this time around the following passage caught me for the first time.

Looking out from the convert he (Sam) could see only a dun, shadowless world, fading into a featureless, colorless gloom. It felt stifling but not warm.

Isn’t this rather descriptive of Mordor itself, or rather what it represents. Without light (goodness) one cannot have shadow or contrast, and so would not truly recognize darkness as it’s opposite. The world would be only be shades of dun, or grey as we say today. Would something good be even seen in that featureless gloom that spilled out from the Unnamed land? I think perhaps it may help explain why Sauron would not think of anyone trying to destroy the Ring. He cannot see or comprehend such a selfless act.

On the other hand, this gloom does seem to effect Frodo and Sam, and again mention is made of Frodo sleeping, possibly dreaming but mentioning Gandalf once more.


Yes, Faramir appears to have little need of sleep! That does seem elven. Another section that stood out regarding Faramir was this one:

Then he turned and without looking back he left them and went to his two guards that stood at a little distance away. They marveled to see with what speed these green clad men now moved, vanishing in the twinkling of an eye. The forest where Faramir had stood seemed empty and drear, as if a dream had passed.

Besides the fact that it is pretty impressive to have these guys melt away into the forest so quickly and quietly, it struck me as though Tolkien might have been talking a bit about the Faithful Numenoreans that Faramir seems to represent. Or perhaps he is speaking of us in this modern age looking back at heroic days gone by. Life is a bit emptier without that dream.

davem - You brought up some interesting food for thought. I had not noticed that Frodo said goodbye to Sam in the same way as Faramir. It would seem fitting for Frodo to do this before sailing west if it were indeed a Numenorean custom!

And I particularly enjoyed the all the thoughts on the crossroads and the king with his crown of flowers.

But as for Estelyn’s puzzler about the rumbling, I suspect it may have something to do with the neighbours kicking up there heels there in Minas Morgul!

[Encaitare]

It's interesting how again we have the requirement of blindfolding. In Lorien Gimli had to be blindfolded and Aragorn chose to avoid conflict by taking this upon the whole of the Company. Here, Gollum must have his eyes bound, and Frodo this time tries to prove to him that there is nothing to fear by having Faramir's men do the same to Sam and himself. It seems Frodo has been taking a leaf out of Aragorn's book.

I love the description of the gathering darkness and the scenery:

At their first halt they looked back, and they could dimly perceive the roofs of the forest they had left behind, lying like a vast dense shadow, a darker night under the dark blank sky. There seemed to be a great blackness looking slowly out of the East, eating up the faint blurs. Later the sinking moon escaped from the pursuing cloud, but it was ringed all about with a sickly yellow glare.

...

For the most part is was covered with a thick growth of gorse and whortleberry, and low tough thorns, though here and there clearings opened, the scars of ancient fires. The gorse-bushes became more frequent as they got nearer the top; very old and tall they were, gaunt and leggy below but thick above, and already putting out yellow flowers that glimmered in the gloom and gave a faint sweet scent. So tall were the spiny thickets that the hobbits could walk upright under them, passing through long dry aisles carpeted with a deep prickly mould.

Even the peace of Ithilien seems consumed by the blackness of the forest. The description in the second paragraph provides some great imagery for me personally; I find it very easy to envision.

Another passage I love:

There, far away, beyond sad Gondor now overwhelmed in shade, the Sun was sinking, finding at last the hem of the great slow-rolling pall of cloud, and falling in an ominous fire towards the yet unsullied Sea.

This, my friends, is the perfect union of poetry and prose. If the two literary forms procreated, this would be it.

But about the excerpt itself: the Sun was originally created to check the power of Morgoth; it is like a damper on the power of evil. The Sun is veiled and is sinking along with the chances of Men's victory. The power of evil is overwhelming it. The one thing that yet seems pure, untouched, is the Sea -- which, as we all know, leads to hidden Valinor.

"They cannot conquer for ever!" Frodo says in a single line which embodies it all. Nothing is permanent, not the time of the glory of the Elves, but also not the dominance of evil.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

It's interesting how again we have the requirement of blindfolding. In Lorien Gimli had to be blindfolded and Aragorn chose to avoid conflict by taking this upon the whole of the Company. Here, Gollum must have his eyes bound, and Frodo this time tries to prove to him that there is nothing to fear by having Faramir's men do the same to Sam and himself. It seems Frodo has been taking a leaf out of Aragorn's book.

This has reminded me of something which stood out for me as odd in this chapter, and that is the way that Frodo seems to speak for Gollum, on his behalf. It is, dare I say it, almost condescending; I think what gets to me is that Gollum is standing there with them and yet Frodo speaks as though he cannot hear or understand:

'Your guide must be blindfolded," said Faramir, 'but you and your servant Samwise I release from this, if you wish."

Gollum squealed, and squirmed, and clutched at Frodo, when they came to bind his eyes; and Frodo said: "Blindfold us all three, and cover up my eyes first, and then perhaps he will see that no harm is meant." This was done, and they were led from the cave of Henneth Annun. After they had passed the passages and stairs they felt the cool morning air, fresh and sweet, about them. Still blind they went on for some little time, up and then gently down. At last the voice of Faramir ordered them to be uncovered.

Yes, Gollum is distressed, but Frodo openly says that the reason he wishes all three of them to be blindfolded is for Gollum's own good. Surely Gollum can hear all this, and so what does it say about their relationship?

[Lathriel]

Although Gollum might have heard what Frodo said his dark side of his nature was taking over again. This dark side might have made Gollum twist Frodo's words. Or he also could have decided that he would forget these words since they would only complicate the desicion of taking the hobbits to Shelob or not.

[littlemanpoet]

I have always thought that Frodo always saw through Gollum/Sméagol. He knows Gollums capabilities and his limits, it seems to me. Through the purgatory torture of the Ring (which, in Rivendell, Frodo accepted as a task rather than a possession), he becomes more Elvish as the quest proceeds. This is how I read all of the things Frodo says and does, including his words to Faramir regarding the blindfolding.

As to the virtue of the staves, the syntax of Faramir's words,

...a virtue has been set upon them of finding and returning.

This is worded as if a craftsman had done the deed; perhaps one of Númenórean descent? Someone would have had to do the "setting upon" of the virtue. As to whether it played a part in the ultimate success of their journey, I don't know. I can't remember what happened to them, when.

davem's interpretation of Sam's dream is good enough for me. He got more out of it than I ever did.

I think it's Mount Doom that's rumbling. All that darkness has to come from somewhere.

What struck me this time were the places they hid in. Their first rest is far from Morgul, and they rest in the open woods.

Frodo lay and slept away the night on the deep mould beneath an ancient tree.

The second rest (a short one because they had been debating whether night or day) was off the ground because Gollum insisted upon it.

...they all climbed up into the crotch of a large holm-oak, whose thick branches springing together from the trunk made a good hiding-place and a fairly comfortable refuge.

The third rest is described thus:

On the further edge of this broad hill-back they stayed their marc and crawled for hiding underneath a tangled knot of thorns. Their twisted boughs, stooping to the ground, were overridden by a clambering maze of old briars. Deep inside there was a hollow hall, raftered with dead branch and bramble, and roofed with the first leaves and shoots of spring.

It is here that Sam has his dream. These seem symbolic of the more dire circumstances as this chapter progresses.

Two more things stood out to me. First, Sam's undying spirit is revealed in

...but where there's life there's hope, as my Gaffer used to say; and need of vittles, as he mostways used to add.

Second is Frodo's reaction to being startled awake by Gollum.

'...Wake up Master, wake up!' He clawed at Frodo; and Frodo, startled otu of sleep, sat up suddenly and seized him by the arm. Gollum tore himself loose and backed away. 'They mustn't be silly,' he hissed.

Maybe it's not much, but something just happened, and it feels like a microcosm of the relationships between the three of them, especially between Frodo and Gollum. To me it is a foreshadowing of what will take place in Shelob's lair, but also is symbolic of the fact that though Gollum tries to manipulate Frodo, it is always Frodo's will that wins out ... until Mount Doom.

One final word about "nothing happening" in this chapter. Tolkien wrote in Letter # 183 (not really a letter but Notes on a review by Auden) the following:

Most men make some journeys. Whether long or short, with an errand or simply to go "there and back again", is not of primary importance. As I tried to express it in Bilbo's Walking Song, even an afternoon-to-evening walk may have important effects.

How much more a three day journey from Henneth Annûn to the Crossroads? All of you have shown me that a lot more has happened in this chapter than I saw through one reading.

I enjoyed this. I actually read the whole chapter instead of scanning. It's not like one chapter per week is going to messs up my other plansss, my preciousssss.

[Lathriel]

I've also liked the way this "small, unimportant and uneventful" chapter has developed. Often you have to dig a little deeper with these kind of chapters. But I like doing that, which is also why I like English so much.
I noticed that as Frodo and Sam continue their journey their resting places become more and more uncomfortable (obviously) but also more exposed.
Let me reword this, the hiding places are of the same kind but the hobbits begin to feel more exposed and insecure. It's a wonder that Sam doesn't colapse due to lack of sleep. Frodo is too tired to worry about anything(Other than the ring)so Sam is left with a lot of worries. It is during this part of the book that you begin to see how important Sam's role is. He is the one who reminds Frodo of food and rest.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I have always thought that Frodo always saw through Gollum/Sméagol. He knows Gollums capabilities and his limits, it seems to me.

Through the purgatory torture of the Ring (which, in Rivendell, Frodo accepted as a task rather than a possession), he becomes more Elvish as the quest proceeds. This is how I read all of the things Frodo says and does, including his words to Faramir regarding the blindfolding.

This goes for me as well, that Frodo had some sort of wisdom or special understanding pertaining to Gollem. He paid heed to Gandalf's advice about Gollem and, listening and watching, came to accept something about their relationship. Without wanting to suggest anything too explicitly religious, it often reminds me of Christ's attitude towards Judas during the Last Supper.

I have been wondering how exactly to share my comments about this chapter, but I suppose that davem's plea for participation in the Chapter by Chapter discussion is as good a place as any to pick up a thread. davem postulates a reason for the dwindling responses to the chapter discussions.

I wonder if the movies haven't played some part in shaping people's view of the story by emphasising the Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli storyline & making it seem more interesting.

On the other hand maybe Sam got it right when he said to Frodo that at this point some readers/hearers of the story would say 'Shut the book now Dad, we don't want to read anymore.'

Is it that people find the Frodo/Sam/Gollum storyline too 'dark' & oppressive, or is it that they simply find it too boring? If its the latter, what does that say about us as readers & as Tolkien fans? I have to say that this part of the story has become increasingly meaningful & significant to me as I've grown older, so I've actually been looking forward to this part of the story. How about others? Maybe a more significant question would be, who do readers consider the 'real' hero & central character of LotR to be - Frodo or Aragorn - & how much of a part has PJ played in shaping that opinion?

For me, it has nothing to do with the film, so I shall let this little rant at PJ go by the board.

The wearying struggle of Frodo and Sam and Gollem too has an eerie appeal to me. My problem does not lie with the bleakness of their quest. It lies with some of the techniques used in this chapter.

It is possible, as davem has reminded us, that Tolkien realised he needed an extra day in this part of the story and so he was thrown upon description more than action or dialogue. However, what the description and narration accomplish for me--and I make clear that this is just my response--is a breaking of the 'willing suspension of disbelief.'

What do I mean by this? I mean that it foregrounds the typology and geography in such a way as to highlight it beyond some of the earlier descriptions. I become uneasy that this chapter suddenly bears an onerous weight of portent and symbolism. (Interestingly, I don't feel this way about the next chapter, perhaps because the imagery is blended with action, as was the imagery of Lothlorien with action. I am explicitly reminded of Lothlorien because both there and on the stairs of Cirith Ungol time is slowed down. But this is to get ahead of myself.)

I guess what I mean is that all the imagery of darkness, of crossing over into Mordor and the dark lands of the Enemy, coupled with the sudden light shining on the flowered crown of the vandalised statue, is too much. (I like how Tolkien uses the concept of grattiffi and the mock eye on the statue, however, as that is unexpected and unique, a very modern touch used with understatement.) I become too aware that this is no longer the imaginary terrain of Middle-earth but now is a hell wrought by Incarnate Evil. If there had been more development paid to the relationship of Sam, Frodo and Gollem, then I think this description would have been put in a context which would make it work better. For me at least, this chapter needs a leaven which would make the symbolism less 'obvious'.

And my hesitation in posting earlier to this chapter has to do with my unease over saying this here, not with my preference for the Aragorn/Leoglas/Gimli quest.