Sauron Diminished?

[Lhunardawen]

I am once again reminded of Middle Earth being Morgoth's Ring. If the One Ring is anywhere in Middle Earth, but apart from Sauron, then Its powers are still "property of Sauron." Probably far-flung, but does it make sense that since Sauron was Morgoth's servant, the Ring that is Middle Earth was passed on to him when Morgoth was cast into the Void? Thus, no matter where the One Ring is, It is still his, and he remains the only one who can wield It...as long as It is within the Ring of Middle Earth. This is probably why giving up the One Ring to the Sea was considered in getting rid of It, because the Sea is not anymore under Morgoth's, and in effect Sauron's, dominion.

As for getting the One Ring back, it is not really necessary for Sauron to do that because of the previous explanations (which are very good, if I may say so). But since he knows fear just as his master Morgoth did, he has to get It back thinking that someone might be able to "pull" the Ring off him.

[obloquy]

I don't think Sauron inherited "Morgoth's Ring."

But since he knows fear just as his master Morgoth did, he has to get It back thinking that someone might be able to "pull" the Ring off him.

Also because evil is often possessive and greedy.

Boromir88: I don't understand how your post is a reply to mine.

[Boromir88]

There would always be the potential for him to be overthrown.

obloquy, I was responding to the fact of the two ways mentioned of defeating Sauron, that being "overthrown" was the one he focused on. He did not think it would be possible that the ring would be destroyed, so he didn't pay any attention to that possibility.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

But since he knows fear just as his master Morgoth did, he has to get It back thinking that someone might be able to "pull" the Ring off him.

Agreed. Sauron's biggest fear is that he will be usurped via another's possession of the Ring.

And regarding Sauron's power: assume that his innate power is x. When he created the Ring, he put some of x into it. The total is still x, yet some of x is within the Ring and the remainder is within his being. The Ring enhanced his abilities - allowing him to control others, which is why he created the Ring - but this did not increase the value of x.

Though separated physically from the Ring, Sauron still maintained the power of x. I think that when it states that his power was waxing, it meant that he was accumulating armies, slaves, hatching plots, casting spells (or the Sauron-equivalent), etc. He still had the power of x, but after his defeat and separation from the Ring, he had to rest and recharge his batteries.

When the Ring was destroyed, it wasn't that Sauron was diminished as in 'x minus Ring.' His innate power, whether in one being or distributed amongst himself, the Ring, controlling the wills of others, etc, still had to add up to x (100%). He could not exist at less than 100%, or at least exist in Arda.

Morgoth, who mirrors Sauron, of course, distributed his X amongst many things, beings, projects, etc so that not only was he tied to the world, but also the power within his actual being was reduced (again, the total was still X).

Hopefully that makes some sense.

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

Originally Posted by alatar

Morgoth, who mirrors Sauron, of course, distributed his X amongst many things, beings, projects, etc so that not only was he tied to the world, but also the power within his actual being was reduced (again, the total was still X).

Morgoth did not just distribute his power amoung many things... He practically 'aided' in the making of Arda.

Yet it is told among the Eldar that the Valar endeaveoured ever, in despite of Melkor, to rule the Earth and to prepare it for the coming of the Firstborn; and they built lands and Melkor destroyed them; valleys they delved and Melkor raised them up; ... and naught might have peace or come to lasting growth, for as surely as the Valar began a labour so would Melkor undo it or corrupt it.

His control over his evil elements was 'cut off' when he was shot off into space, but Morgoth himself is still out there, albeit unable to influence anything on Arda. If Sauron equals to Morgoth, then the only way you can destroy Morgoth is to destroy the entire Middle-Earth...

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Hot, crispy nice hobbit

His control over his evil elements was 'cut off' when he was shot off into space, but Morgoth himself is still out there, albeit unable to influence anything on Arda. If Sauron equals to Morgoth, then the only way you can destroy Morgoth is to destroy the entire Middle-Earth...

As far as I can tell, no one is disputing that Morgoth was NOT, indeed, destroyed utterly and completely as Sauron was. Rather, he was taken, and imprisoned. The Dagor Dagorath, although never really defined by Tolkien, was always a part of the canon, the belief that in the end, Morgoth would return and all the world would join the battle of good and evil. Personally, I think that we would find in those last years that Morgoth, reunited with his "ring", would use it to devastating effect, forcing the very earth to fight the forces of good, so that while he will ultimately be destroyed, and good triumph, Arda will effectively be ended, and Arda Remade will begin....