The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Movies
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-23-2005, 01:41 PM   #1
King of the North
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Washington State
Posts: 60
King of the North has just left Hobbiton.
Right from the get go when u first meet Denethor (TTT EE) he is a bit crazy as he insists that Boromir goes to Rivendell and claims the One Ring for Gondor. By showing from the beginning that Denethor is mad, PJ did not create good character. And if you watch only the theatrical versions of the movies, Denethor is even less interesting.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
There was no character arch, which even movie Faramir had, to some extent.
Very true. Movie Denethor did not go through any journey and essentialy remained static throughout his entire role in the movies. The death of Boromir only contributed Denethor's insanity, but it did not start it because as I stated above, the Steward is somewhat insane from the very beginning. In the movie we never see the good leadership qualities that Denethor had in the book until he lost his mind to the Palantir.
__________________
Ask for everything, recieve nothing

Last edited by King of the North; 03-23-2005 at 01:44 PM.
King of the North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2005, 02:59 PM   #2
The Saucepan Man
Corpus Cacophonous
 
The Saucepan Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
The Saucepan Man has been trapped in the Barrow!
White Tree The Madness of Steward Denethor

I am not really a fan of film Denethor (although I do think that John Noble plays the character as written superbly). But, realisitically speaking, there was not enough time within the last film to establish Denethor as the proud but noble character we meet initially in the book and then have him change into the suicidal and infanticidal character that he is at his death. The contrast would not have come across credibly within the time available to devote to him on screen. And so it made sense to have him as an unsympathetic character from the outset.

But I think that there is a change in his character, albeit subtle, throughout the film. As Boromir88 points out, he only becomes really psycho once he sees the size of the force approaching Minas Tirith and then is given to believe that his remaining son is dead.

As for the original question, I think that there is sufficient in the film to establish the credibility of his despair, even without the Palantir. He is fully aware that Minas Tirith cannot hope to hold out on its own against Sauron without having to be told as much by Sauron himself. Add to that the death of his favoured son and his conduct with regard to the defence of Minas Tirith and his attitude towards Gandalf (supplemented by his credible reluctance to give up his throne to a "usurper") seems believable to me. The reality of Sauron's assault on the White City and the death of his remaining son (or so he believes) is credibly sufficient to push him over the edge (if you'll excuse the pun ).
__________________
Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!
The Saucepan Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2005, 03:31 PM   #3
Anguirel
Byronic Brand
 
Anguirel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The 1590s
Posts: 2,778
Anguirel is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Sting Journeys...

I'm being a Devil's Advocate here, but isn't it amusing that we criticised Faramir's "character development journey" but are now declaring that Denethor is too static?

At least everyone agrees they got Boromir right. Aside from the question of the hair.
__________________
Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter
-Il Lupo Fenriso
Anguirel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2005, 03:47 PM   #4
King of the North
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Washington State
Posts: 60
King of the North has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally posted by Anguirel
I'm being a Devil's Advocate here, but isn't it amusing that we criticised Faramir's "character development journey" but are now declaring that Denethor is too static?
I never criticized Faramir's character development.
__________________
Ask for everything, recieve nothing
King of the North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2005, 11:12 AM   #5
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Auspicious Wraith
 
Eomer of the Rohirrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,859
Eomer of the Rohirrim is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Eomer of the Rohirrim is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Boots

I will. It was illogical.

Anyway, that's for the Faramir thread. As for Denethor, he was basically just a jerk all the way throughout. A real shame I thought.

In the film, Denethor seemed to be in denial about Gondor's ridiculously low chances in the War. Then he sees Mordor's army, his eyes open up (literally) and he goes insane. I think that is as central an explanation as any, within the film's logic.
__________________
Los Ingobernables de Harlond
Eomer of the Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:27 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.