tactical discussion, countering balrogs

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Silmarillion and LOTR class Balrogs are large, deadly, and have mid-ranged weapons (whips) and short ranged weapons (blades).

So the ideal way to kill them is to be in the mountains, on some high cliff that you can throw them off.

Luring them to mountains doesn't seem to be hard, they seem to be drawn to the high peaks. Just lead refugees on a mountain pass, and a Balrog will come. Then, all it takes is one being who has seen Valinor, using some leverage to knock the brutes over the precipice.

Make sure there isn't a huge lake below ... because the Balrogs will live.

But, if it's a fountain ... they'll die. Apparently.

Ecthelion drowned Gothmog in a fountain ... of course, Gondolin was in a mountainous region, and there may have been a cliff involved, it may have had sheer, steep walls that Gothmog couldn't just slime his way out of. That explains why Ecthelion couldn't get out either ... that and swimming in a suit of armor.

Perhaps the fountain of Gondolin was more like a really big well or reservoir.

Anyway, from a tactical point of view ... all it takes is a sword to parry blows and an indeterminable amount of strength to fight with the Balrog until a suitable cliff can be found.

[Makar]

Why would it be that a Noldorin Prince seems to have been a better match for a balrog than another Maia?

[Celebaglar]

What reason had the maia to be fighting the balrogs, the noldor were not suited, they just came across the noldor.

[Lindolirian]

The Balrog yelled, and fell forward, and the fire of his being was extinguished in the Fountain, and he perished, along with Ecthelion, who, steel laden, sank into the depths, and so perished the Lord of the Fountain, after fiery battle in cool waters.

Keeper: This quote from the Fall of Gondolin has always made me think of the Fountain as a deep well because I can't imagine a great Elf like Ecthelion drowning in two inches of water. It is clear that it was deep enough to quench the weaking embers of Gothmog and drown and armour laden (not to mention rather tall) Elf.
In all seriousness, the most tried and true way to kill a Balrog has been casting him from a great height, but that's not always and option. Ecthelion killed Gothmog by stabbing with the spike of his helm, which I find downright hilarious. Correct me if I'm wrong but the only other descriptions of Balrog deaths are Glorfindel's and Gandalf's which were both done in by a great fall. Gothmog is the only one who gives us evidence that Balrogs can be killed by a physical wound which implies that their spirits are more tied to their bodies than Sauron's. Just ask Luthien and Huan about that one.
So the trick is either to overwhelm them by numbers (Rog and his House), impale them (Ecthelion), or toss them off a mountain.

Now if each of these fail, I'd say just send in a MOAB

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Aside from ICBMs (MIRVed or not), MOABs, and lone fighters, you can kill Balrogs with an absurdly large army of Maiar and Valinor Elves.

Probably except those that will hide in inaccessible caverns deep underground.

[Essex]

I usually find that about 15 hits of the Balrog with a 'bolt of the valar' from Gandalf usually does the trick. And as long as Idrial is there to bump up gandalf's health now and then there's no problem.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[obloquy]

Originally Posted by Celebaglar

What reason had the maia to be fighting the balrogs, the noldor were not suited, they just came across the noldor.

Celebaglar brings up a good point: fire-retardant suits are absolutely necessary. This, as Tolkien points out, was why the Elves were able to bring down so many in The Fall of Gondolin. Gondolin was the center of all fire-retardant suit manufacturing, however, so once it fell there was no longer an abundance of this special Elven armor. I believe Rog's chestpiece had a name, but it's not coming to me at the moment. Maybe someone else remembers.

[lord of dor-lomin]

If a fall can kill a Balrog, why didn't Durin's Bane die when he and Gandalf fell a million miles down from the bridge?

I mean, just think of how fast they'd be going after falling that far. Hitting water going that fast should kill you, right?

[alatar]

Originally Posted by lord of dor-lomin

If a fall can kill a Balrog, why didn't Durin's Bane die when he and Gandalf fell a million miles down from the bridge?

I mean, just think of how fast they'd be going after falling that far. Hitting water going that fast should kill you, right?

I think that lord of dor-lomin is correct regarding 'falling kills balrogs.' I assume that a fall, though even from a great height, can only wound not destroy a Balrog. Nor can they be drowned easily. I would say, seeing the examples provided, that the Balrogs must be seriously wounded before these other means of death are available.

Though not very obvious from the book, obviously Gandalf gives the Roggie more than a few paper cuts and spells (lightning bolts, fireballs, something?) before he casts him into ruin on the mountain.

[Gurthang]

Originally posted by alatar:

Though not very obvious from the book, obviously Gandalf gives the Roggie more than a few paper cuts and spells (lightning bolts, fireballs, something?) before he casts him into ruin on the mountain.

I'm not sure that fireballs would to much good against Balrogs, but I think you have the right idea.

In the examples above, there seems to be a trend that you can physically hurt a balrog. (Falls, magic spells, helmet spikes...) It would make sense then that you could injure it enough to remove spirit from body. After all, that is death. The more pain inflicted, the farther apart a beings physical and spiritual parts move. It would probably take awhile, but it seems very possible to me that a balrog could simply be beaten to death.

Now, doing that before it kills you is the hard part.