Arwen's Lament - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elianna · 03-08-2005, 08:13 PM

Not so much sad, but upset. My main elven alter-ego is Glorfindel's daughter, and I'm a purist, so that doesn't leave much room for liking the movie-Arwen.

But that's not what this topic is about. I do not understand what the song is talking about.

Upon another reading I guess I understand the second verse. "Leaves are now changing from green to gold, and the Sun is now fading." The ideas here are similar to Galadriel's "O Lorien! The Winter comes! The bare and leafless day. / The leaves are falling in the stream, the river flows away." The Elves are fading, the world is changing. Then "I wish I could hold you closer." duh, Arwen wishes she weren't seperated from Aragorn.

I still don't "get" the first verse. And while I partially understand it being said by Arwen, I still don't understand how it fits into the Houses of Healing.

Sorry for the tone of these posts, I get touchy about my not understanding poetry.

Encaitare · 03-08-2005, 09:11 PM

Perhaps it has something to do with how Faramir and Eowyn have both suffered a loss of close kin -- their worlds have changed forever?

Elianna · 03-08-2005, 09:12 PM

Thank you. I'm happy now.

Dûrbelethwen · 03-09-2005, 08:27 AM

"I still don't "get" the first verse. And while I partially understand it being said by Arwen, I still don't understand how it fits into the Houses of Healing."

It orignally was to be sung in the background of the scene when Arwen had her vision Eldarion before she turn back to Rivendell.

Lathriel · 03-09-2005, 05:57 PM

Maybe the first verse is also about what Arwen feels when she's thinking of Aragorn.
But I think it can also count for the Hobbits, or the whole fellowship since their experiences change their views on the ME.
E.g Legolas and Gimli's views of the races of dwarves and men.Eowyn's change of heart. Frodo being taken over by the ring's influence.

Evisse the Blue · 03-11-2005, 04:27 PM

The way I see it, it's about MovieArwen being separated from MovieAragorn and pining for him.
But you've got me as to how it fits with the Houses of Healing scene...Maybe they thought that Eowyn could also say such words, since Aragorn is also 'turning away from her'.
Anyway, I find it a bit funny that Philippa says in the Extended ROTK that placing Arwen's lament during Eowyn's healing scene was meant to create a connexion between the two women. Well, the connexion is already, I think, pretty obvious!
(Oh no, here I go again, dumbing it down!

)

Arwen Imladris · 03-22-2005, 04:44 PM

Ya, you've got to remember that the song was originally written and recorded to be a song from Arwen to Aragorn, but in the end they just transposed it ontop of the Eowen/Faramir scene. Basically, I'm not sure how much sense is supposed to be in it.

Originally, it looks to be a song about how Arwen longs for Aragorn and how the old world that she knows is passing into the west. She understands what Aragorn must do, but she wishes he could just stay with her.

Where it's placed, however, could be about how they've both faced the darkness and the world will never be the same. They understand each other and can fill the void in each other's hearts, but first they must each let their own guard down.

03-08-2005, 08:13 PM	#1
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Not so much sad, but upset. My main elven alter-ego is Glorfindel's daughter, and I'm a purist, so that doesn't leave much room for liking the movie-Arwen. But that's not what this topic is about. I do not understand what the song is talking about. Upon another reading I guess I understand the second verse. "Leaves are now changing from green to gold, and the Sun is now fading." The ideas here are similar to Galadriel's "O Lorien! The Winter comes! The bare and leafless day. / The leaves are falling in the stream, the river flows away." The Elves are fading, the world is changing. Then "I wish I could hold you closer." duh, Arwen wishes she weren't seperated from Aragorn. I still don't "get" the first verse. And while I partially understand it being said by Arwen, I still don't understand how it fits into the Houses of Healing. Sorry for the tone of these posts, I get touchy about my not understanding poetry. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

03-08-2005, 09:12 PM	#3
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Thank you. I'm happy now. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

03-09-2005, 05:57 PM	#5
Lathriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME) Posts: 612	Maybe the first verse is also about what Arwen feels when she's thinking of Aragorn. But I think it can also count for the Hobbits, or the whole fellowship since their experiences change their views on the ME. E.g Legolas and Gimli's views of the races of dwarves and men.Eowyn's change of heart. Frodo being taken over by the ring's influence. __________________ Back again

03-11-2005, 04:27 PM	#6
Evisse the Blue Brightness of a Blade Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: wherever I may roam Posts: 2,685	The way I see it, it's about MovieArwen being separated from MovieAragorn and pining for him. But you've got me as to how it fits with the Houses of Healing scene...Maybe they thought that Eowyn could also say such words, since Aragorn is also 'turning away from her'. Anyway, I find it a bit funny that Philippa says in the Extended ROTK that placing Arwen's lament during Eowyn's healing scene was meant to create a connexion between the two women. Well, the connexion is already, I think, pretty obvious! (Oh no, here I go again, dumbing it down! ) __________________ And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass.

03-22-2005, 04:44 PM	#7
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Ya, you've got to remember that the song was originally written and recorded to be a song from Arwen to Aragorn, but in the end they just transposed it ontop of the Eowen/Faramir scene. Basically, I'm not sure how much sense is supposed to be in it. Originally, it looks to be a song about how Arwen longs for Aragorn and how the old world that she knows is passing into the west. She understands what Aragorn must do, but she wishes he could just stay with her. Where it's placed, however, could be about how they've both faced the darkness and the world will never be the same. They understand each other and can fill the void in each other's hearts, but first they must each let their own guard down. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

03-08-2005, 09:11 PM	#2
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Perhaps it has something to do with how Faramir and Eowyn have both suffered a loss of close kin -- their worlds have changed forever?

03-09-2005, 08:27 AM	#4
Dûrbelethwen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 80	"I still don't "get" the first verse. And while I partially understand it being said by Arwen, I still don't understand how it fits into the Houses of Healing." It orignally was to be sung in the background of the scene when Arwen had her vision Eldarion before she turn back to Rivendell.