Anti-Dwarves

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Snorri Swifthammer

Thinking about it, I'll put a vote in for dragons

Interesting points, Snorri!

Regarding Mim: he was shorter on virtues. Not that he was an orc; just that he wasn't a very good dwarf. Looking at your list (edit: in opening post), he's on the level of Ted Sandyman.

If you want the 'bad' side to be really eeeevil, then I'd say the opposite of hobbits is Gollum. Then Mim wouldn't ... quite... work.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Regarding Mim: he was shorter on virtues. Not that he was an orc; just that he wasn't a very good dwarf. Looking at your list, he's on the level of Ted Sandyman.

Agreed. Plus, to me Thorin Oakenshield was about the same as he was greedy, faithless, proud, overbearing, without honor, whiny - just what's a Hobbit to do to get a word of praise from a dwarf? Bilbo's writings don't paint a pretty picture of dwarves (sorry Snorri!).

If you want the 'bad' side to be really eeeevil, then I'd say the opposite of hobbits is Gollum.

I put Gollum (and others) in the 'other' category. Gollum was a rogue - sure, he ate babies, but he also would not work for Sauron unless it suited his own ends.

[Snorri Swifthammer]

Originally Posted by alatar

Agreed. Plus, to me Thorin Oakenshield was about the same as he was greedy, faithless, proud, overbearing, without honor, whiny - just what's a Hobbit to do to get a word of praise from a dwarf? Bilbo's writings don't paint a pretty picture of dwarves (sorry Snorri!).

Bilbo shouldn't paint a nice picture of the Dwarves. The journey of the Hobbit is Bilbo's transformation from "nice, quiet hobbit" to adventurer. He shouldn't greatly appreciate those that took him from his comfortable life. At the beginning Bilbo is looking through a typical Shire Hobbit worldview and the Dwarves would definately get the dreaded title of "Disturbers of the Peace". However by the end of the Hobbit Bilbo is a true companion with the Dwarves. Plus from the beginning there are certainly Dwarves that Bilbo likes better than others in the party.

But remember if the Dwarves hadn't gone on their journey, Bilbo would never have found the Ring and the events of the LotR would never have happened. Therefore the Dwarves are the true saviours of Middle Earth.

[Rumil]

If I remember, the reference to Sauron-supporting Dwarves comes at the end of the Second Age, with the Last Alliance. It was said that all peoples save the elves were split, with some supporting Sauron, others the Alliance. Of Dwarves, few fought on either side (implying at least some DID fight for Sauron) but the House of Durin fought on the side of the Alliance.

I'd guess that although Sauron the arch-manipulator could not use the seven rings to reduce the dwarves to obediance he could surely have exploited their enhanced greed and pride to set one against the other and so capitalise on their disunity.

By the time of the War of the Dwarves and Orcs in the Third Age, all Dwarven Houses were said to have sent reinforcements, so the disunity would seem likely to have been cured, perhaps at the point of an axe!

The other unfortunate incident was the whole Nauglamir thing, where the Dwarves of the First Age destroyed Doriath in another jewelry-related tiff. Even Gandalf appears non-committal on whose fault this one was though.

[Kuruharan]

It's painfully obvious that greedy git Thingol was trying to stiff the noble craftsdwarves of their justly earned fee...

EDIT: This relates to the idea that the natural adversaries of dwarves were other dwarves.

A warlike race of old were all the Naugrim, and they would fight fiercely against whomsoever aggrieved them: servants of Melkor, or Eldar, or Avari, or wild beasts, or not seldom their own kin, Dwarves of other mansions and lordships.