LotR -- Book 3 - Chapter 11 - The Palantír

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Well, I don't think he would...but I'm not too clear on what you mean by this.

I'm working from the premise that the Secret Fire and the Light are the same thing. The imagery of both are similar; the Secret Fire may be another way of expressing Light, or possibly where the Light comes from. If Gandalf would not be a servant of any being less than Eru then being a servant of the Secret Fire must mean Eru is the Secret Fire.

I think I need a theologian to draw up the exact links with Christian ideas here!

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I don't see rendering something holy as being the same thing as making it divine. Holiness to me means making something pure (or something being pure) without any sort of taint whatsoever. Being divine means...being divine. I don't think it is the same thing.

The only problem with this definition is that if being holy also means being pure and without taint, then many of the Ainur fail, even the 'good'. Surely if holiness is allowable where moral/spirtual failures or mistakes have happened, then what we might see as bad traits or behaviours are actually allowable for 'holy' figures? That seems tangled to me. Or is it a case of 'God's will'? Even if what is done by God seems wrong or cruel to us?

Maybe it is that anything less than Eru can never be as divine or pure. And that would include such items as Palantiri. If so, then there is a message in the creation of and the lust for the Silmarils, almost as if they are 'graven images'; and they do, after all, contain the Light within and as such are representations of it. But I think I need some Christian input here before I draw any more parallels!