Ainur the HOLY ones

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

(These are all based on my own inferences.)
To my knowledge the Valar are referred to only as Lords, Kings, Queens, but never gods. So this prompted me to ask the question did Elves worship the Valar? Did they worship Iluvatar as the creator?

In the beginning of the Ainulindale, tolkien says

There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Iluvatar; and he made first the Ainur, THE HOLY ONES,...

but this refers to all of the Ainur as holy. So does that mean that the Elves revered all of the Ainur together as holy?

The Numenoreans at least must have looked upon Iluvatar as some sort of a god because they created Meneltarma, meaning pillar of Heaven and they prayed to him, correct?

The Maiar probably weren't thought of as holy so much as wise leaders, because of Thingol and Melian. I'm guessing that someone who was thought of as a God generally wouldn't marry one of their followers. Also Gandalf and Saruman weren't hallowed when they were in Middle Earth. (correct?)

Who would the hobbits/dwarves have worshipped (if they worshipped at all), because they didn't know the history of the Elves or had since forgotten it.

Also since Tolkien was a Christian man and was monotheistic why would he have created a world where polytheism reigns? (This is of course if the Valar are "holy")

Forgive me if this thread already exists, but please point out other threads where I can find these answers. Many thanks.

[Fingolfin II]

I'll try to answer this as far as I know. Elves and Numenoreans alike worshipped Eru, as did the Valar, with many feasts and celebrations. As for many Easterlings (and some evil Numenoreans), they worshipped Sauron and/or Morgoth, being tricked into this. The Akallabeth will explain better what I'm talking about here.

As far as I know, Sauron was the only Maia to be worshipped, as he presented himself as a God and King of Men. Somewhere in the Silm (or maybe it was HoME?) it has a quote saying 'these are the powers of the world, the Valar, whom Men call Gods', or something like that. I suppose it all really depends on the 'education' of the Men; for example the Men in Middle-Earth during the Second Age thought the Numenoreans were gods, whereas the Numenoreans knew, or at least believed, in Eru and knew that the Valar were the governors of Arda; kind of like his regents. This changed though, when Sauron came to Numenor under the captivity of Ar-Pharazon. In fact, one quote in the Akallabeth says that during the lightning raised by the Valar, Sauron defied it 'and in that hour Men caleld him God' (not too sure about this quote; I don't own a copy of the Silm).

Originally Posted by AbercrombieOfRohan

Also Gandalf and Saruman weren't hallowed when they were in Middle Earth. (correct?)

Well, only a few people knew who and what Gandalf and Saruman really were, so they weren't likely to be worshipped as holy.

Who would the hobbits/dwarves have worshipped (if they worshipped at all), because they didn't know the history of the Elves or had since forgotten it.

Dwarves worship Aule, their creator, who they call Mahal. Hobbits- I have no idea who they worship, if indeed they worship anyone at all.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention, the Elves revere Varda the most out of all the Valar. So while they revere all the Valar, I suppose there are differing levels of reverence for each particular towards a specific Vala.

[The Saucepan Man]

Tolkien frequently refers, in his Letters, to the Ainur as 'angelic powers' and also as 'gods', although they were of a lesser order than Iluvatar, who was the one God. What power they have is delegated from Iluvatar and to him alone is reserved the power of creation.

This is perhaps best explained in Letter #131 (dating from late 1951):

The cycles begin with a cosmogonical myth: the Music of the Ainur. God and the Valar (or powers: Englished as gods) are revealed. These latter are as we should say angelic powers, whose function is to exercise delegated authority in their spheres (of rule and government, not creation, making or re-making). they are 'divine', that is, were originally 'outside' and existed 'before' the making of the world. Their power and wisdom is derived from their Knowledge of the cosmogonical drama, which they perceive first as a drama (that is as in a fashion we perceive a story composed by some-one else), and later as a 'reality'.

Later in the same letter he continues:

The Knowledge of the Creation Drama was incomplete: incomplete in each individual 'god', and incomplete if all the knowledge of the pantheon were pooled. For, partly to redress the evil of Melkor, partly for the completion of all in an ultimate finesse of detail) the Creator had not revealed all. The making, and nature, of the Children of God, were the two chief secrets. All the gods knew was that they would come, at appointed times. The Children of God are thus primevally related and akin, and primevally different. Since they also are something wholly 'other' to the gods, in the making of which the gods played no part, they are the object of the special desire and love of the gods.

Notice the difference between 'gods' and 'God'.

In Letter #181 (draft: early 1956), he says:

It is, I should say, a 'montheistic but "sub-creational" mythology'. There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers. These take the place of 'gods', but are created spirits, or those of the primary creation who by their own will have entered the world. But the One retains all ultimate authority, and (or so it seems as viewed in serial time) reserves the right to intrude the finger of God into the story: that is to produce realities which could not be deduced even from a complete knowledge of the previous past, but which being real become part of the effective past for all subsequent time (a possible definition of a 'miracle').

As for the peoples of Middle-earth, it seems that, to the extent that they were aware of Iluvatar and the Ainur, they viewed them much in this way. So, Iluvatar was seen as the one God, but the Valar were powers who could be called upon in time of need. This is reflected, for example, in the cries of Legolas and Frodo to Elbereth. Similarly, Faramir's Men offer up a silent prayer to the West at Henneth Annun. Elves and Numenoreans, by virtue of their lore (and, in the case of some Elves, personal experience) had the greatest knowledge in this regard, while other Men, such as the Rohirrim, and Hobbits (Bilbo, Frodo et all being exceptions) appear to have had little conception of the 'Lords of the West' or of Iluvatar.

Hope this helps.

[gorthaur_cruel]

Hobbits- I have no idea who they worship, if indeed they worship anyone at all.

We all know that they worshipped Old Toby...where would they be without those pipe-weeds?

The best example about what the Elves thought about Eru and the Valar appears in HoME X: Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth. Finrod regards Eru with holiness, rebuking Andreth if she even mentions that Morgoth may be the Lord. The Valar he regards as greater beings than himself who must be revered, but not worshipped.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

We all know that they worshipped Old Toby...where would they be without those pipe-weeds?

Thanks! So different people worshipped different things, with Iluvatar being the main god. Did Tolkien ever explain his reasoning for polytheism, because as a Christian wouldn't he have been against it?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The fact that different people worship different things doesn't necessarily make for a polytheistic doctrine - objects or people can be worshipped though they are not worthy of it. All evidence I have seen in Tolkien's writings is monotheistic - the Ainur are 'holy' in the sense that the Bible calls Christians 'holy' - dedicated to God. Eru alone is Creator, all others are sub-creators; though the ignorance of Men may call the Ainur "gods", they are definitely conceived of as angelic beings.

[davem]

Hobbits- I have no idea who they worship, if indeed they worship anyone at all.

Its interesting to speculate on Hobbit beliefs - in the light of, for instance, statements like Sam's:

'Lor bless you, Mr. Gandalf, sir!' said Sam. 'Nothing! Leastways I was just trimming the grass-border under the window, if you follow me.' He
picked up his shears and exhibited them as evidence.

Or Merry's use of the word 'Lawks' in the house at Crickhollow....

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

There is no evidence of any kind of churches or religious areas in the Shire is there? (Besides the taverns)

And what about the Gondorians? Because they are descended from the Numenoreans so it would make sense for them to worship Iluvatar, but they also forgot their history, except for the special few, historians, kings etc.

Or also the Rohirrim, because they are men, they would've worshipped someone right? In theoden's death scene he says,

Grieve not! It is forgiven. Great heart will not be denied. LIVE NOW IN BLESSEDNESS; and when you sit in peace with your pipe, think of me!

And in the same chapter when Eomer finds Eowyn on Pelennor he says

Eowyn, how come you here? What madness or DEVILRY is this?

[Encaitare]

Although I'm not sure about the worship practices of the people of Rohan, they did recognize one of the Valar above the others: Oromë, whom they called Béma. I quote The Encyclopedia of Arda (grand site that it is):

Béma
The name used by the Northmen for the Vala the Elves called Oromë. As the great huntsman and horseman of the Valar, he and his steed Nahar were known to the horse-loving people of Rohan, who claimed that their great horses the mearas had ancestors brought out of the West by Béma himself.