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#1 | ||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Strangely enough, this film technique could almost be applied to LotR in general, as we 'see' Middle Earth through various eyes. We are never in one place for very long (the chapters are shorter than you might expect for an 'epic' novel), and successive chapters with a lot of exposition are often linked by others which take us along on a journey to the next part of the story. It is an episodic novel in this respect, yet with a strong underlying feature in that we are taking the journey and discovering the landscape of Middle Earth along with the characters.
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Gordon's alive!
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#2 | |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Lalwende wrote:
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Helm's Deep is like the Death Star battle. The attentive reader easily grasps the geography, the strategies, and the overall arc of the battle. I would contrast this with the Battle of the Pelennor Field, where the battle itself is more of an amorphous entity and we do not closely follow the particular ups and down of the fighting - not that this is really a flaw, since there are other things going on at that point more important than the battle at large. |
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#3 | |||||||||||
Stormdancer of Doom
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notes from reading, before reading thread:
More catsup
Notes from reading chapter prior to reading thread: Much of my underlining and highlighting had to do with the layout of Helm's Deep and comparison to the movie, which I will endeavor to skip. Seen dimly through the mists of antiquity... I love this sort of thing: Quote:
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I found the doubts of Theoden especially poignant. "I fret in this prison." "I serve little purpose here." "My heart is doubtful." "The end will not be long." And yet... "When dawn comes... I will ride forth." There is courage! To look death in the face, and ride out to meet it... foreshadowing Pelennor in all its bloody valor and glory: "Death they cried with one voice..." Quote:
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...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve. |
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#4 | ||
Banshee of Camelot
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,830
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I am lagging very very far behind, but still trying to follow. I enjoy reading all the interesting posts, but there is hardly anything left for me to say.
I notice how Gimli is here portreyed as valiant and hardy, not at all the laughing stock they made of him in the movie! Legolas respects him, and his words Quote:
And it is the counterpart to Gimli's words when entering Fangorn in "The White Rider" Quote:
And Gimli saves Eomer's life, no less! Also, in the hunt after the orcs with Aragorn and Legolas, it is never said that he lagged behind because of short legs. On the contrary, dwarves are very enduring.(and not just boasting to be so)
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Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat! |
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#5 |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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This is just conjecture, but could the Siege of Alkmaar been an influence for the Battle of Helm's Deep?
Now, I read about this in a history book by H.G. Wells, and the link was the only one I could find that tells more details of the story, so some of you may know the story differently. Anyway, basically some General decided to 'increase the morale of the public' by slaughtering all of the inhabitants of the town that he was about to besiege. He had a professional army at his disposal, and also within that had a set of 'select' soldiers, which were better at soldiering than average. In the last town he attacked, he hung only 900 of its inhabitants, and still no one was taking him seriously nor showing signs of improved morale, and so he decided that Alkmaar would have to be a better show. The inhabitants of Alkmaar, now properly motivated, decided to fight back by any and all means. After raining much artillery down on the city, the General's select soldiers stormed the city only to be repelled by what ended up being a bunch of fishermen (persons, as I assume that all men, women and children took part in the defense). A breach in the city wall had been made but did not help the attackers. By days end, a thousand or so attackers lay dead, while the city's defenders lost merely a handful. The next day, the General bombarded the city again, but then decided to move on, as the ground was starting to get soggy. The city had opened up sluiceways, and so were letting the ocean in, making it hard for the General's soldiers to not be cranky. The city let the General know that, should the attack continue, they would let the entire ocean in and flood the entire area, drowning the General and his soldiers along with all of their own crops and livestock. Seemingly they had a strong aversion to being hung. The General, seeing how badly his men performed against motivated defenders, suddenly found an honorable way to retreat, stating that it was not the city defenders that made him turnabout, but the ocean, which no one could resist. Anyone else see Helm's Deep, and the cleansing of Orthanc here?
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