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Old 02-02-2005, 11:07 PM   #1
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I can’t find any explanation of how objects are infused with magical power, or how they will work for some & not for others - how can Lembas sustaing Frodo & Sam, but choke Gollum? Is its ‘power’ selective - does it decide who it will sustain & who it won’t? Probably not, but that means that its power is dependent on who eats it - so must the eater be in a certain ‘spiritual’ state before he can benefit from it? If so, then it must work differently fromn the elven swords, which glow blue in the presence of orcs, whoever is holding them - & the Palantiri, it seems, will work for any individual whose will is strong enough, no matter their moral or spiritual state - Sauron can use one, & the Silmarils shine even in Morgoth’s crown.
Throughout Tolkien's works there are many cases of objects made by the 'good' forces that bring special harm to the 'evil' forces. For example: While the Silmarils shined on Melkor's crown; they burned his hand when he touched them. Or when the Elven rope is fastened around Gollum and it harms him. From what we've seen in the stories I wouldn't believe it has so much to do with a characters 'spiritual' state, but more to do with their 'moral alignment' in direct relation to the 'moral alignment' of the item (or its creator) in question. Items made by Elves can't seem to be used by creatures such as Orcs or corrupted beings such as Melkor. On the other-side: things wrought by the 'dark' forces in Arda are perilous to users of the 'good' forces. The Ring is the ultimate example of this. If this is true, it can imply either sentience on the part of the items (unlikely for something like Lembas) or that whenever something is made it gains an 'essence' from its creator. If the latter is true then it stands to ask: is the creator's lost essence replenishable? Or is it gone forever, thus, diminishing their power?

There are examples of being losing power and retaining it after they make these items, such as Melkor's perversion of Eru's creatures which weakened Melkor's actual powers. An example of beings retaining essence would be Galadrial and her servants making the Elven Cloaks for the Fellowship. Were the cloaks so minor that they didn't take anything noticable from their creators? Or is personal 'essence' replenishable to an extent? I don't know the answer to that question. I'll have to think on it and post more later.

Addendum: How come nobody has mentioned Dwarf Runes yet? There was supposedly a type of 'power' within the ancient runes the Dwarves placed upon things.
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:26 PM   #2
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. . . Ivrin was a very clean, wholesome, almost sacred place. The very presence of those foul creatures would be enough to "defile" its waters. (Neithan)
Wouldn't it be the other way around? For example. the Silmarilli burned Morgoth's hand, Sirion protected quite a lot of people, and the Elven-cloak shielded the Fellowship from the Orcs and their arrows. I believe it would take quite a lot of power to do the inverse (i.e. corrupt something holy).
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:58 PM   #3
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Wouldn't it be the other way around? For example. the Silmarilli burned Morgoth's hand, Sirion protected quite a lot of people, and the Elven-cloak shielded the Fellowship from the Orcs and their arrows. I believe it would take quite a lot of power to do the inverse (i.e. corrupt something holy).
Maybe, but I think there would be degrees in it.

I mean, the Silmarils were about as holy as they came but the elven cloaks did not convey much more than camouflage. They did not do much to protect Merry and Pippin when they were in the hands of the orcs (although they probably did help in the escape).

Hmm…random thought...

Knowing how much the orcs hated all things elven, I wonder why they did not tear the elf cloaks to pieces when they captured the hobbits?

Regarding dwarf runes…

It is kind of hard to say. We are not given a whole lot of information about them (practically nil). They were likely some form of “lore” that the dwarves were capable of performing.
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Old 02-03-2005, 11:17 PM   #4
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The Elven-cloak was just to bring it to the Third Age.

Wait, how about the Barrow-blade? The Uruks feared to hold it. No less than the Witch-King of Angmar succumbed to it.

You see what I'm telling here? Just the mere presence of evil isn't enough to corrupt. You have to go in deep, alter something fundamental, or wait for the person to succumb. A lake can't succumb to evil, so you have to change the fundamental aspect of the lake. Ulmo sang the lake to be holy. Morgoth's music (perhaps through Glaurung) crept in to defile this theme.

That's the magic in it.
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Old 02-04-2005, 12:20 AM   #5
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Perhaps Ivrin was simply a very "clean" place, very pure, unstained, and unblemished, but nothing more than that.

The Silmarils, the barrow-swords, the elven cloaks, lembas, etc., these all had some sort of power imbued in them through their makers, which made them anathema to evil. Need Ivrin have been the same?

After all, Ivrin is never actually said to "repel" evil in the way that any of the above do.

So here's the basic thought I've got going: Ivrin was a place that more or less "untouched" by evil, and was thus very pure and clean, and therefore very soothing to those coming in from a much more stained world. However, Ivrin had no inherent "resistance" to evil of its own, and thus it did not take much for Glaurung to defile its waters.

Just my two cents worth....
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