New dudes and dudettes: Most annoying things about LOTR. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-28-2005, 09:11 PM

The thing that most annoyed me was the cheap breaking of Gandalf's staff in ROTK, other than that I did not appreciate the humor between Legolas and Gimli in the movie, such as in TTT at helms deep Legolas asked gimili wants a crate to stand on so he can see whats happening.

Assasin · 01-29-2005, 05:55 PM

Ya, the stuff between Gimli and Leggy got a little over the top.

Celebuial · 02-04-2005, 03:16 AM

I think that for a movie audience you need some comic relief in a "long heavy film(as I've heard it described)", so I think that P-J had good reason for all the Legolas Gimli jokes. Anyway if there wasn't any of that in the movies then Legolas and Gimli's relationship would've just been ignored! I think what you see in the film is better than no portrayal of it at all.

Boromir88 · 02-04-2005, 05:27 AM

I wasn't too bothered about the flaming eye. Until it started blinking, in ROTK, and came with a spotlight.

As for the Faramir/Denethor issue...

Quote:

Originally posted by Finwe:
Faramir was acting stupid. He respected his father... He didn't had to respect him! Denethor only really loved Boromir, cause Boromir was older and protected Osgiliath against Mordor. Denethor said only bad things about Faramir, but Faramir wanted that his father would think better about him. If I were Faramir... I should left my father for what he is... a men that has a heart of stone...

Faramir has always wanted his Father's approval, in the movies they draw this out bigger then in the books (by taking Frodo to Osgiliath). But, even in the books Faramir wished his father appreciated him like Boromir. I think it's safe to say that you don't feel the same way, as Faramir does towards Denethor, so I'm finding it difficult to judge how you think Faramir acts stupid.

Don't forget the lines of Gandalf..."Your father loves you Faramir. (whisper) He'll remember it in the end."

I think if the times were different, and there was no evil for Gondor to fight, Denethor would have loved Faramir and not Boromir. Faramir was extremely like his father, a capable sword wielder, but their talents are towards lore and thinking. Boromir is the complete opposite, forget about thinking, he throws himself into battle whenever he gets the chance. A reason for Denethor's strong approval of Boromir was because Gondor was at war, and that's what Denethor thought Gondor needed. He thought they needed more "Boromir's," so to say, and wishes that his son was like his brother. If Gondor was in peace? Well, then it would be hard to tell, there would be no use for Boromir, no battles to fight, so Denethor might have liked Faramir better; if Gondor was in different circumstances.

It's safe to say no matter how many Boromir's Gondor had, they had no hope of beating Sauron, but Denethor thought they needed warriors like Boromir to win.

Finwe-89 · 02-04-2005, 05:57 AM

Yes, I agree with you Boromir88, but I'm talking about the Faramir in the movies. He was acting stupid in the movies. Denethor did love him but didn't show it ( I forgot to say that in my older post). So Faramir most have thought that his father didn't love him. And there is the stupid part! If you think your father doesn't love you, then leave him. Don't go and try to be like some one else ( Boromir ). Faramir risked his own life to get his father respect and love, now that's stupid.

Lalaith · 02-04-2005, 06:04 AM

The problem I think lies in the change in Denethor between the book and the film.
Book Denethor, if you remember, is very like Faramir in personality "the blood of Westernesse runs almost pure in their veins." In Boromir it does not. So Faramir has a close affinity with his pa, despite the latter's preference for the robust man of action Boromir.
The Denethor of the film did not have any of the decayed nobility of the book character, which I agree does make Faramir's devotion rather odd. Furthermore, in the EE of the film, they saw fit to have Gandalf say that Denethor was like Boromir and unlike Faramir, in direct contradiction to what Tolkien said in the book. Way to go, PJ...

ohtatyaro · 02-04-2005, 06:14 AM

Several things, but most of all, probably, hyenas. I mean, wargs are wolves, just fell and clever, but not hyenas.

Some other things too. Aragorn scared to fight. Or scared is a too strong a word. Hesitant. that's it.

Gollum setting up Sam, also. I mean, Frodo believing Sam was a traitor, not Gollum trying to set him up.

Denethor chewing cherries, while there is a battle outside. I loathe that scene. It makes Denethor horrible, and in the books I liked him and was sorry when he died.

Merry and Pippin taken on a trip accidentally, just becuase they happened to be stealing maggots carrots and stumbled upon Frodo. If I haven't read about how they were friends with Frodo in the book, I would be thinkig something like 'what did these two asked for trouble for?' Who asked them to come at all? And then, in elrond's place, they are all eager to come. Ah, another scene - when they run into the secret council.

But on the whole, I liked the movies

alatar · 02-04-2005, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celebuial

I think that for a movie audience you need some comic relief in a "long heavy film(as I've heard it described)", so I think that P-J had good reason for all the Legolas Gimli jokes. Anyway if there wasn't any of that in the movies then Legolas and Gimli's relationship would've just been ignored! I think what you see in the film is better than no portrayal of it at all.

Maybe so; however I liked the Legolas/Gimli connection seen briefly in FOTR EE where Gimli recounts the gift given to him by Legolas (who smiles). Their relationship could have had a few less comic (dare I say 'more serious'

?) moments.

And the "She-Elf" line is at the top of my list. I accepted Arwen taking He-Hobbit Frodo's place at the Fords, but come on...the Nazgul seemed silly thereafter.

Boromir88 · 02-04-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Denethor chewing cherries, while there is a battle outside. I loathe that scene. It makes Denethor horrible, and in the books I liked him and was sorry when he died.

Nice point Ohta...I'm fine with making Denethor look like a raving lunatic, it goes to show Gondor needs a king and stresses the return of Aragorn, but the whole eating scene is inappropriate. PJ got his point across, Denethor is a crazy man in his deep decline, but you have to make him have no manners and be an absolute slob too?

Finwe, maybe both of us are looking at this the wrong way, something that I've been thinking....Maybe, Faramir wasn't doing it for Denethor, maybe he was doing it for Boromir? This is something that is mentioned in the books, and is brought out brilliantly in TTT EE, the relationship between Boromir and Faramir. So, maybe he's doing this because it's what his brother would have wanted him to do (fight to save Gondor) and not because he wants to please his father? I admit this is a little hard to prove, if I even can, since Faramir does seem to ride to Osgiliath to win the approval of his father. But maybe he's doing it because that's what Boromir would have wanted him to do?

Laitoste · 02-04-2005, 06:03 PM

I must say that the most annoying part of the movies is when they cut away from Eowyn and the Witch King and focus on Aragorn. I get all into the scene, and then they go somewhere else! But I want to know what happens! Now I have to get emotionally invested into another, somewhat unrelated, scene. Argh. Aragorn's arrival at the Pelennor is not nearly as dramatic as it could be. I don't think any explanation was provided, either.

Boromir88 · 02-04-2005, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Aragorn's arrival at the Pelennor is not nearly as dramatic as it could be. I don't think any explanation was provided, either.

It's a Deus Ex Machina, latin for "God of the machines." When directors are stuck trying to solve a plot conflict they bring in supernatural beings (often from a godlike figure) to solve it. It's a rather sloppy way of ending something if you are stuck. Don't know why they didn't add in the men from Lebennin, maybe PJ thought it would be too confusing if Aragorn all of a sudden appeared with Men on the ship.

01-29-2005, 05:55 PM	#2
Assasin Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a desert. Posts: 142	Ya, the stuff between Gimli and Leggy got a little over the top. __________________ Death is as light as a feather, duty is as heavy as a mountain.

02-04-2005, 03:16 AM	#3
Celebuial Wight Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cardiff during term time/Leicester in the holl's Posts: 129	I think that for a movie audience you need some comic relief in a "long heavy film(as I've heard it described)", so I think that P-J had good reason for all the Legolas Gimli jokes. Anyway if there wasn't any of that in the movies then Legolas and Gimli's relationship would've just been ignored! I think what you see in the film is better than no portrayal of it at all. __________________ Ú cilith ‘war. Ú men ‘war. Boe min mebi. Boe min bango.

02-04-2005, 05:57 AM	#5
Finwe-89 Wight Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In Lotholorien, looking in the mirror that shows that there is still hope for life... Posts: 84	Yes, I agree with you Boromir88, but I'm talking about the Faramir in the movies. He was acting stupid in the movies. Denethor did love him but didn't show it ( I forgot to say that in my older post). So Faramir most have thought that his father didn't love him. And there is the stupid part! If you think your father doesn't love you, then leave him. Don't go and try to be like some one else ( Boromir ). Faramir risked his own life to get his father respect and love, now that's stupid. __________________ Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum- ishi krimpatul... Beware: Don't speak this loud when you're alone in the dark... Unless you really want it... But don't say I didn't warn you...

02-04-2005, 06:14 AM	#7
ohtatyaro Wight Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: here, there, everywhere... Posts: 121	'tis about the movies, right? Several things, but most of all, probably, hyenas. I mean, wargs are wolves, just fell and clever, but not hyenas. Some other things too. Aragorn scared to fight. Or scared is a too strong a word. Hesitant. that's it. Gollum setting up Sam, also. I mean, Frodo believing Sam was a traitor, not Gollum trying to set him up. Denethor chewing cherries, while there is a battle outside. I loathe that scene. It makes Denethor horrible, and in the books I liked him and was sorry when he died. Merry and Pippin taken on a trip accidentally, just becuase they happened to be stealing maggots carrots and stumbled upon Frodo. If I haven't read about how they were friends with Frodo in the book, I would be thinkig something like 'what did these two asked for trouble for?' Who asked them to come at all? And then, in elrond's place, they are all eager to come. Ah, another scene - when they run into the secret council. But on the whole, I liked the movies __________________ Reading this sig costs three Galleons, nine Sickles, and a Knut. Pay up!

02-04-2005, 06:03 PM	#10
Laitoste Wight Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Behind the hills Posts: 164	Argh! I must say that the most annoying part of the movies is when they cut away from Eowyn and the Witch King and focus on Aragorn. I get all into the scene, and then they go somewhere else! But I want to know what happens! Now I have to get emotionally invested into another, somewhat unrelated, scene. Argh. Aragorn's arrival at the Pelennor is not nearly as dramatic as it could be. I don't think any explanation was provided, either. __________________ "If we're still alive in the morning, we'll know that we're not dead."~South Park

01-28-2005, 09:11 PM	#1
The White Rider Guest Posts: n/a	The thing that most annoyed me was the cheap breaking of Gandalf's staff in ROTK, other than that I did not appreciate the humor between Legolas and Gimli in the movie, such as in TTT at helms deep Legolas asked gimili wants a crate to stand on so he can see whats happening.

02-04-2005, 06:04 AM	#6
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	The problem I think lies in the change in Denethor between the book and the film. Book Denethor, if you remember, is very like Faramir in personality "the blood of Westernesse runs almost pure in their veins." In Boromir it does not. So Faramir has a close affinity with his pa, despite the latter's preference for the robust man of action Boromir. The Denethor of the film did not have any of the decayed nobility of the book character, which I agree does make Faramir's devotion rather odd. Furthermore, in the EE of the film, they saw fit to have Gandalf say that Denethor was like Boromir and unlike Faramir, in direct contradiction to what Tolkien said in the book. Way to go, PJ...