Frodo v's Elijah

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lathriel

Well, of course the book Frodo and movie Frodo can't be exactly the same because Frodo in the book has so much to him that it is difficult to portray everything.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Lathriel

As for Frodo being a victim. I remeber reading ROTK a few days ago and feeling incredibly sorry for Frodo as he was making his way through Mordor. (Tears were almost rolling across my cheeks) I think he is a victim but in the way of the ring. In the end the ring captures him, which is why he puts it on his finger at the cracks of Mount Doom. Doesn't all the sufferenig he has to go trough which is caused by the ring show that he is a victim. I think so. Same as with Gollum, he is still bound to the ring and therefore also becomes a victim because that bond becomes his death.

Agreed. I think that in the books the progression from Shire Hobbit to Ring Zombie is slower and more consistent. In the movies Frodo starts looking like a Ring Zombie in TTT, but every now and then becomes lucid as needed. The "They're here..." line and the handing of the Ring to the flying Nazgul scene in Osgiliath were goofy. Frodo being beaten down by the Ring had to be shown, but I think that there may have been a better way to show the same without making Frodo seem helpless (except when he should be in Gorgoroth and on Mount Doom).

Originally Posted by Lathriel

All in all I think Elijah did well with the material tha was given to him.

Hopefully it's clear that I'm 100% in agreement.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Lathriel

All in all I think Elijah did well with the material tha was given to him.

On the whole, it is customary for people here to excuse performances that they did not like by reference to the material (aka the "blame it all on Jackson, Boyens and Walsh" approach). In general, I think that this approach is justified. For example, I think that John Noble turned in a great performance but, given the way the character was written, he was never going to be anything like the Denethor of the book.

There are, however, two notable exceptions to this in my view. Orlando Bloom's performance was good, but (largely in view of his inexperience) he appears poor next to such accomplished actors as Messrs McKellen, Hill, Bean and Rhys-Davies. I can't see that being any different, even had all his lines come straight from the book.

I would say the same about Elijah Wood, but for two things. First, he is a far more experienced actor than Orlando. And secondly, in view of the (to my mind) stunning performance that he turns in during in most of the Mount Doom/Sammath Naur scenes, it seems to me that he was more than capable of putting in a better performance throughout the entire film trilogy than he in fact did.

I agree that film Frodo is, in many respects, a markedly different character to book Frodo and that this accounts for many of the issues raised here. But I do think that he was capable of doing, and therefore should have done, better (regardless of the material).

[Essex]

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The "They're here..." line and the handing of the Ring to the flying Nazgul scene in Osgiliath were goofy.

Frodo didn't hand the Ring to the Nazgul. He was being coerced to put it on. As Jackson said in the commentary, this scene was transposed form Minas Morgul where the Witch King comes out on his horse and Frodo struggles with the Ring.

Even as these thoughts pierced him with dread and held him bound as with a spell, the Rider halted suddenly, right before the entrance of the bridge, and behind him all the host stood still. There was a pause, a dead silence. Maybe it was the Ring that called to the Wraith-lord, and for a moment he was troubled, sensing some other power within his valley. This way and that turned the dark head helmed and crowned with fear, sweeping the shadows with its unseen eyes. Frodo waited, like a bird at the approach of a snake, unable to move. And as he waited, he felt, more urgent than ever before, the command that he should put on the Ring. But great as the pressure was, he felt no inclination now to yield to it. He knew that the Ring would only betray him, and that he had not, even if he put it on, the power to face the Morgul-king-not yet. There was no longer any answer to that command in his own will, dismayed by terror though it was, and he felt only the beating upon him of a great power from outside. It took his hand, and as Frodo watched with his mind, not willing it but in suspense (as if he looked on some old story far away), it moved the hand inch by inch towards the chain upon his neck. Then his own will stirred; slowly it forced the hand back. and set it to find another thing, a thing lying hidden near his breast. Cold and hard it seemed as his grip closed on it: the phial of Galadriel, so long treasured, and almost forgotten till that hour. As he touched it, for a while all thought of the Ring was banished from his mind. He sighed and bent his head.

Yes there are differences, mainly:

the location,

the nazgul (not witch king) perhaps sees the Ring

and that before Frodo could use his own willpower (yes another reason for you movie frodo bashers out there to have a go at him), Sam pounces on him and pushes him down the stairs.

I have to admit I never realised this until Jackson commented on the scene on the TT EE and I re-read the passage above. PS, I've explained before of the plot hole 'filling' by having faramir shoot the nazgul down so he can't report back to Sauron.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

AlatarFrodo didn't hand the Ring to the Nazgul. He was being coerced to put it on. As Jackson said in the commentary, this scene was transposed form Minas Morgul where the Witch King comes out on his horse and Frodo struggles with the Ring.

Thanks. I'll have to rewatch the scene as I thought that Frodo was trying to hand the Ring to the Nazgul.

Note that the Nazgul want Frodo to put on the Ring so that they can 'see' him. In the movie scene that we are discussing, (from my memory) Frodo is standing in front of the Fell Beast, which is not blind, upon which sits a Nazgul which could 'smell' him. The Nazgul obviously knows that Frodo is there - why else hover?

And in regards to PJ comment about this being a nod to the Witch King leaving Minas Morgul as you quoted from the book, wasn't that scene (PJ-ified) filmed also? I can't remember, but thought that something like it was in there.

[Lathriel]

Just to let you guys know. Elijah turned 24 yesterday (I believe, or it culd have been today)

Happy Birthday Elijah

Also I think it could have been worse if some other actor had been Frodo. I can't imagine who would be better.

[Essex]

Alatar, re

Note that the Nazgul want Frodo to put on the Ring so that they can 'see' him

Yes, this was my "excuse" when I first saw the osgiliath scene, and I thought the same until I re watched the weathertop scene. one of the nazgul quickly turns round and 'sees ' / is aware of Frodo before he puts the Ring on.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

Yes, this was my "excuse" when I first saw the osgiliath scene, and I thought the same until I re watched the weathertop scene. one of the nazgul quickly turns round and 'sees ' / is aware of Frodo before he puts the Ring on.

Still haven't rewatched the scene. Does Frodo show the ring to the Nazgul, or does he try to put it on? Putting on the Ring, in light of what Essex pointed out, wouldn't really make much sense then.

And maybe this could be another thread, but the Nazgul weren't exactly like the book either, and so it's hard to know what PJ intended regarding the scene as I have all of this backstory in my head (from the books) that may have created false assumptions.