Prisoner of Númenor Planning/Discussion Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 01-26-2005, 02:05 PM

Resident Linguist? Me?!?

I know next to nothing about the grammar of Sindarin or Adúnaic. I just go by what the websites I found tell me, what sounds good to the ear, and what rolls of the tongue - - more or less - -

Well, Regin, that's an alteration instead of a refinement. It's up to you, of course.

This is Sindarin according to the site I use; take a look
here

many = limb
wind = gwae, thúl; plural would be: thyl

Many winds: Limbethyl. I stuck an "e" in the middle because it rolls off the tongue better that way. I don't know if I have any right to do that, but I just go by feel.

Where did you get "Wawaotok" and "Liwaiwa" from?

piosenniel · 01-26-2005, 03:16 PM

I think Regin may have been looking at a word etymology list, possibly the one at the Ardalambion site. The etymology lists there give the more archaic forms of a word from which the final language developed.

Why don't we all agree to use this site (It's the one lmp is using): Sindarin/Quenyan

It's simple enough without having to go through the headache of trying to download the Sindarin Dictionary (often is seen as a corrupted file by different computers and won't open) or buying the Sindarin Dictionary disc in English/Polish translation.

Ardalambion does have a fuller explanation of plurals and other parts of Sindarin for those who like to delve a little deeper. Unfortunately, it offers no wordlists as it does for Quenyan.

How does this sound?

~*~ Pio

Regin Hardhammer · 01-26-2005, 03:35 PM

I used the Aradalambion Index to Etymologies by English Glosses, and then double checked it in HoMe, V, The Lost Road, which is Tolkien's original list. You can get to this on-line list by clicking here, then scroll down the page and click on Index to Etymologies by English glosses.... From there you click on index, and it will take you to the alphabet where you click on the letter you want for a particular English word. Once you know the Elvish stem you want, however, it's actually much easier to refer to HoMe.

The Index to Etymologies and LR shows the base stem that Tolkien used to develop the word; Lost Road also lists a number of the words that Tolkien later developed from that base stem. Like you, I am willing to "refine" a bit, sometimes using the stem and sometimes the later words, according to what I like best, especially since these are names. Names tend to incorporate archaic forms and stems as well as literal words.

The "gwae" that you cite, for example, is actually a variant of the one I used in both Wawaotok and Liwaiwa . The original stem for "blow" is "wa-, wawa-, waiwa". This same stem is used in Quenyan, Sindarin, and Ilkorin to form the word wind. "Gwaew" is the more common usage for wind in Sindarin; "waiwa" is used in Quenyan. In this case I preferred the Sindarin stem, which also happens to be a Quenyan word.

The same is true of your word "limb". This is actually a variant of my "Li". The stem for "many" in both Sindarin and Quenyan is "li". Later forms Tolkien listed include "li" (Q), "lin" (S) and "lim" (S) (actually blended with rim), usually at the end of words. I took the stem and used it at the beginning of the word.

Ot, Otos, Otok is similarly a stem for Sindarin and Quenyan for seven. Odog is a later Sindarin word. I didn't like the sound of "odog". I had visions of running in circles and barking!

(I believe your term "thul" actually means breath and is from the root "thu" that means puff or blow.)

If using the original stem is a problem, I will be happy to go back and look at the forms again and come up with something else, using only the later words.

Regin Hardhammer · 01-26-2005, 03:42 PM

I just cross posted with Pio. I will go back and use the other list and come up with a different name.

Sophia the Thunder Mistress · 01-26-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Resident Linguist? Me?!?

Well, you do seem far more adept at naming than me... heck, I pulled "Kathaani" off the name generator and then translated it. I was lucky that I got something that actually translated.

mark12_30 · 01-26-2005, 07:10 PM

Folks,

This game is looking more and more historical-- a very good thing, and also a very time-consuming thing. After some soul-searching and a hectic week I'm realizing I can't do this game justice over the next two months. I've discussed it with Sophia, and I feel it's wise to extend my regrets now rather than later... I wish it were otherwise. This is shaping up as a great game.

Once again, regrets, and all the best. I wish I didn't have time constraints. Enjoy the game!

--mark12_30

piosenniel · 01-26-2005, 07:43 PM

Bringing this forward:

Players/Characters

Main Characters

littlemanpoet - Abârpânaru Karíbzîr/Mabalar Melethroch (the captive) BIO/POST NEEDED
Sophia the Thunder Mistress – Kâthaanî Karíbzîr/Cerveth (the captive’s daughter) BIO/POST NEEDED
alaklondewen - underground contact in Armenelos BIO/POST NEEDED
Himaran - rescuer BIO/POST NEEDED
Meneltarmacil – rescuer BIO/POST NEEDED
Regin Hardhammer - Azarmanô Hazadbawîba/Elenfairë Ostovaivar – rescuer BIO/POST NEEDED
TomBrady12 – Nimilroth/Marsillion - rescuer BIO/POST NEEDED
1 rescuer – Numenorean; preferably male (female with adequate explanation)** STILL NEEDED **

~*~

Cameo Characters

Nilpaurion Felagund - sailor - Númenorean male - Will only appear at end of story while the Faithful attempt to leave the bay. BIO ONLY NEEDED
1 Númenorean leader of the Faithful - male or female acceptable ** STILL NEEDED **
1 sailor - Númenorean male (Elendil may be used but must be true to character. Will only appear at end of story while the Faithful attempt to leave the bay) ** STILL NEEDED **

Regin Hardhammer · 01-26-2005, 08:06 PM

After careful consideration I have decided that the Elvish equivalent to my Aduniac name will be Quenyan rather than Sindarin. I have looked on the name sight and selected Elenfairë for my first name, elen meaning star and fairë meaning spirit, hence "star spirit'. For my last name I have chosen Ostovaivar, Osto meaning seven and vaivar meaning winds, hence "seven winds". My Adunaic first name will be Azarmanô, azar meaning star and manô meaning spirit and my last name will be Hazadbawîba, hazad meaning seven and bawîba meaning winds.

Therefore my two names will be Azarmanô Hazadbawîba in Adunaic and Elenfairë Ostovaivar in Quenyan. I'm sorry that Mark12_30 won't be playing with us. Thanks to all people who provided assistance in forming my names.

01-26-2005, 02:05 PM	#1
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Resident Linguist? Me?!? I know next to nothing about the grammar of Sindarin or Adúnaic. I just go by what the websites I found tell me, what sounds good to the ear, and what rolls of the tongue - - more or less - - Well, Regin, that's an alteration instead of a refinement. It's up to you, of course. This is Sindarin according to the site I use; take a look here many = limb wind = gwae, thúl; plural would be: thyl Many winds: Limbethyl. I stuck an "e" in the middle because it rolls off the tongue better that way. I don't know if I have any right to do that, but I just go by feel. Where did you get "Wawaotok" and "Liwaiwa" from? Last edited by littlemanpoet; 01-26-2005 at 02:09 PM.

01-26-2005, 03:35 PM	#3
Regin Hardhammer Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tumunzahar/Nogrod Posts: 364	Original post I typed before I saw Pio's comments above.... I used the Aradalambion Index to Etymologies by English Glosses, and then double checked it in HoMe, V, The Lost Road, which is Tolkien's original list. You can get to this on-line list by clicking here, then scroll down the page and click on Index to Etymologies by English glosses.... From there you click on index, and it will take you to the alphabet where you click on the letter you want for a particular English word. Once you know the Elvish stem you want, however, it's actually much easier to refer to HoMe. The Index to Etymologies and LR shows the base stem that Tolkien used to develop the word; Lost Road also lists a number of the words that Tolkien later developed from that base stem. Like you, I am willing to "refine" a bit, sometimes using the stem and sometimes the later words, according to what I like best, especially since these are names. Names tend to incorporate archaic forms and stems as well as literal words. The "gwae" that you cite, for example, is actually a variant of the one I used in both Wawaotok and Liwaiwa . The original stem for "blow" is "wa-, wawa-, waiwa". This same stem is used in Quenyan, Sindarin, and Ilkorin to form the word wind. "Gwaew" is the more common usage for wind in Sindarin; "waiwa" is used in Quenyan. In this case I preferred the Sindarin stem, which also happens to be a Quenyan word. The same is true of your word "limb". This is actually a variant of my "Li". The stem for "many" in both Sindarin and Quenyan is "li". Later forms Tolkien listed include "li" (Q), "lin" (S) and "lim" (S) (actually blended with rim), usually at the end of words. I took the stem and used it at the beginning of the word. Ot, Otos, Otok is similarly a stem for Sindarin and Quenyan for seven. Odog is a later Sindarin word. I didn't like the sound of "odog". I had visions of running in circles and barking! (I believe your term "thul" actually means breath and is from the root "thu" that means puff or blow.) If using the original stem is a problem, I will be happy to go back and look at the forms again and come up with something else, using only the later words. __________________ For once I myself saw with my own eyes the Sibyl at Cumae hanging in a bottle, and when the boys said to her: 'Sibyl, what do you want?' she replied, 'I want to die.'" Last edited by Regin Hardhammer; 01-26-2005 at 03:49 PM. Reason: cross posting, and trying to be flexible

01-26-2005, 03:42 PM	#4
Regin Hardhammer Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tumunzahar/Nogrod Posts: 364	I just cross posted with Pio. I will go back and use the other list and come up with a different name. __________________ For once I myself saw with my own eyes the Sibyl at Cumae hanging in a bottle, and when the boys said to her: 'Sibyl, what do you want?' she replied, 'I want to die.'"

01-26-2005, 07:10 PM	#6
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Regrets Folks, This game is looking more and more historical-- a very good thing, and also a very time-consuming thing. After some soul-searching and a hectic week I'm realizing I can't do this game justice over the next two months. I've discussed it with Sophia, and I feel it's wise to extend my regrets now rather than later... I wish it were otherwise. This is shaping up as a great game. Once again, regrets, and all the best. I wish I didn't have time constraints. Enjoy the game! --mark12_30 __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

01-26-2005, 07:43 PM	#7
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Bringing this forward: Players/Characters Main Characters littlemanpoet - Abârpânaru Karíbzîr/Mabalar Melethroch (the captive) BIO/POST NEEDED Sophia the Thunder Mistress – Kâthaanî Karíbzîr/Cerveth (the captive’s daughter) BIO/POST NEEDED alaklondewen - underground contact in Armenelos BIO/POST NEEDED Himaran - rescuer BIO/POST NEEDED Meneltarmacil – rescuer BIO/POST NEEDED Regin Hardhammer - Azarmanô Hazadbawîba/Elenfairë Ostovaivar – rescuer BIO/POST NEEDED TomBrady12 – Nimilroth/Marsillion - rescuer BIO/POST NEEDED 1 rescuer – Numenorean; preferably male (female with adequate explanation) STILL NEEDED ~~ Cameo Characters* Nilpaurion Felagund - sailor - Númenorean male - Will only appear at end of story while the Faithful attempt to leave the bay. BIO ONLY NEEDED 1 Númenorean leader of the Faithful - male or female acceptable STILL NEEDED 1 sailor - Númenorean male (Elendil may be used but must be true to character. Will only appear at end of story while the Faithful attempt to leave the bay) STILL NEEDED Last edited by piosenniel; 01-31-2005 at 03:35 AM.

01-26-2005, 03:16 PM	#2
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	I think Regin may have been looking at a word etymology list, possibly the one at the Ardalambion site. The etymology lists there give the more archaic forms of a word from which the final language developed. Why don't we all agree to use this site (It's the one lmp is using): Sindarin/Quenyan It's simple enough without having to go through the headache of trying to download the Sindarin Dictionary (often is seen as a corrupted file by different computers and won't open) or buying the Sindarin Dictionary disc in English/Polish translation. Ardalambion does have a fuller explanation of plurals and other parts of Sindarin for those who like to delve a little deeper. Unfortunately, it offers no wordlists as it does for Quenyan. How does this sound? ~*~ Pio

01-26-2005, 08:06 PM	#8
Regin Hardhammer Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tumunzahar/Nogrod Posts: 364	After careful consideration I have decided that the Elvish equivalent to my Aduniac name will be Quenyan rather than Sindarin. I have looked on the name sight and selected Elenfairë for my first name, elen meaning star and fairë meaning spirit, hence "star spirit'. For my last name I have chosen Ostovaivar, Osto meaning seven and vaivar meaning winds, hence "seven winds". My Adunaic first name will be Azarmanô, azar meaning star and manô meaning spirit and my last name will be Hazadbawîba, hazad meaning seven and bawîba meaning winds. Therefore my two names will be Azarmanô Hazadbawîba in Adunaic and Elenfairë Ostovaivar in Quenyan. I'm sorry that Mark12_30 won't be playing with us. Thanks to all people who provided assistance in forming my names. __________________ For once I myself saw with my own eyes the Sibyl at Cumae hanging in a bottle, and when the boys said to her: 'Sibyl, what do you want?' she replied, 'I want to die.'" Last edited by Regin Hardhammer; 01-26-2005 at 08:10 PM.