Frodo v's Elijah - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

alatar · 01-25-2005, 10:15 AM

I was somewhat disappointed with the movie-Frodo, as he wasn't anything like the book-Frodo. As stated earlier I have no problem with Elijah Wood, but think that his character was poorly written.

I will limit my comments to the movie-Frodo, and note that this is all from memory, so apologies for what I have confused etc.

I was okay with Frodo up through Rivendell, with the exceptions of his actions on Weathertop ("Put it out!" Waaa!) and that he didn't confront the Nazgul at the Fords (that was PJ). I especially liked the part where he accepts the quest, though Gandalf's reaction to Frodo was better.

After that, it's Frodo as victim-baggage. He doesn't know where to go, has to have Aragorn get the Ring from Boromir, gets a new 'do' from the same (just like a little child), gets caught by the Watcher, speared by a troll (though he did use his sword - what was PJ thinking?

), tossed across the gap in the bridge (caught in someones's arms like a babe), dragged away crying after Gandalf falls, outside walks away teary eyed, gets Galadriel-induced indigestion, almost gets sucked into her Mirror. Confronts Boromir, which was good, and hides from Uruk Hai, which is understandable but again if it weren't for Merry and Pippin, he'd still be hiding behind a tree.

He saves Sam, and FOTR has Sam and Frodo going off to Mordor.

In TTT, he falls from a rope, complains about the weather, whines about being lost, falls into the Marshes (luckily Gollum was there), gets captured by Faramir, whines a lot to Faramir about being 'let go,' almost hands over the Ring to a flying Nazgul (good thing that Sam was there) then is released by Faramir after Sam says some magic words.

Frodo did help in the initial fight with Gollum, and he did save Sam at the Black Gate.

In ROTK, Frodo whines about never returning, almost goes to Minas Morgul (good thing he wasn't alone), thinks that his best friend eats too much, gives Sam the boot because Sam is just being too harsh to Frodo's new big-eyed buddy, has an anxiety attack in Cirith Gorgul (not that I'd be really calm), is momentarily helpless as he is stranded in webs, gets bitten and wrapped, is almost killed by an Orc (good thing that Sam showed up), is whiny when forced to march with orcs, and struggles onto Mount Doom, gets immobilized by the Sauron searchlight, gets to Mount Doom and decides not to pitch the ring, gets saved yet again by Sam from taking a lava bath.

Liked where he's Frodo again at the end of all things, and he's okay in the Green Dragon, and the end was okay.

Note that many of these scenes are exactly from the book, yet the PJ version has me seeing Frodo as whiny, helpless and in need of a lot of assistance. Where's the noble Frodo from the book? He seemed to be more of a leader and also seemed to have more resolve.

My long rambling point is that I rarely see movie-Frodo 'in charge, taking the lead, saving himself and heroic.'

I can't get the book line out of my head where in ROTK Gandalf says to the hobbits something like, "that's what you were trained for..." in regards to cleaning up the Shire. To me, then, Frodo after his return is more like Gandalf, the wise one who does not fight but guides people in the right direction. He grew as a results of all of the trials that he had to overcome. Movie Frodo did not seem to grow as much, but was more like 'glad that that's over with.'

Dragon Reborn · 01-27-2005, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alatar

I was okay with Frodo up through Rivendell, with the exceptions of his actions on Weathertop ("Put it out!" Waaa!)

This is an example of the movie Frodo that irritates me too. There are many other scenes like this that I don't agree with. For some people - and this I admit is entirely to the discretion of one's own opinion - his acting is appealing, and for others like me, it is somewhat disappointing.

However the quote above can also be looked at in terms of Frodo's sensibility and wisdom. Compared to the other hobbits he is somewhat wiser, in both book and film. In this sense Elijah/PJ did a good job. They made an effort to make the other hobbits seem younger and spontaneous, which at the same time added humour to some scenes.

There are some things (which I frankly couldn't be bothered to go into) that the movie didn't and never could achieve, as the movie is only an immitation of the book, and has to be able to appropriate to its audience. Therefore the movie Frodo is defenitely not the same as the book Frodo.

Wouldn't this all be made easier if Tolkien was still around to explain things!

Vanwatholiel · 01-27-2005, 08:33 PM

I admit, sometimes Elijah's phony accent can bug me a little (okay, a lot).

At the end of ROTK, when he turns and smiles on the ship from Mithlond, I automatically start crying. It just wrenches my heart. It's like all the pain and paleness and sorrow flee from his face and joy floods back in. Like you can see the same Frodo before he went on the quest. Before he earned all his heartache. Like, you can see the seventeen year old Elijah and not the 22year old Elijah. To put it simply, he became the Frodo before the quest. That part just makes me cry and cry! The look in his eyes...enchanting. *sniff* I'm sobbing now. sorry. *sniff*

Ps. Question: I have read the books, saw the movies, and read all the other books written by Tolkien not related to LOTR but concerning Middle Earth, and I was wondering does Frodo go to Valinor or Tol Eressea? I believe it was Valinor, but it could have been Tol Eressea. Can the learned Tolkien people help me out?

(I'm a Hobbit smoking Old Toby, the finest weed in the South Farthing)

alatar · 01-27-2005, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn

However the quote above can also be looked at in terms of Frodo's sensibility and wisdom. Compared to the other hobbits he is somewhat wiser, in both book and film. In this sense Elijah/PJ did a good job. They made an effort to make the other hobbits seem younger and spontaneous, which at the same time added humour to some scenes.

Dragon Reborn, I agree regarding Frodo looking older/wiser than the other three. It worked at times.

Watching FOTR EE as I write, I noticed that during the Balin Tomb fight that initially when the Orcs are entering the room, Frodo is the most surprised/worried/afraid of the four.

Also, in regards to my Weathertop "Waaa!" comment, to be more concise, in the books I never saw Frodo as anything other than a Hobbit, and would say that his 'voice' was always that of an adult. In the movie, however, in that particular scene (and elsewhere) I hear the hysterical cry of a child, so instead of thinking Hobbit, I think child. Couple this with PJ's belittling (sorry) of the Little Folk, and I don't see Frodo being in charge of his own fate.

Note that I thought that Elijah Wood's acting was fine, but again, he did what the directors wanted.

Lyta_Underhill · 01-27-2005, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Also, in regards to my Weathertop "Waaa!" comment, to be more concise, in the books I never saw Frodo as anything other than a Hobbit, and would say that his 'voice' was always that of an adult. In the movie, however, in that particular scene (and elsewhere) I hear the hysterical cry of a child, so instead of thinking Hobbit, I think child. Couple this with PJ's belittling (sorry) of the Little Folk, and I don't see Frodo being in charge of his own fate.

I seem to recall a scene in the book from near Weathertop when Frodo is panicking in a manner reminiscent of what some here might term a "Waaa!" reaction. I don't have the books handy, but I can tell you Frodo was NOT composed or showing his older and wiser nature at this point! Also, I noticed all the hobbits voices seemed somewhat higher pitched than the humans' . I wondered about it at the time, thinking Billy Boyd had a particularly high voice, but I put it down to the shortening of vocal chords in a smaller statured humanoid being and thought no more of it. OK, I forgot Billy Boyd was human, and not Pippin the Hobbit, OK?

Same with Elijah...but, as mark12_30 says so concisely above, he is not an identical copy of the printed page Frodo Baggins. I think every character suffers from this "shortening," but I can't bring myself to believe that the abridgment of Frodo Baggins makes Elijah less of an apt personification of the character in the context of the film. The Middle Earth of the movies is abridged, shortcuts taken, subtleties lost.

But I think that Frodo of the movies is no more or less a master of his fate than Tolkien's Frodo. They are both in the same boat. They both make the same decisions when those decisions are shown. (Keep in mind that I just assume they went through the Barrowdowns and saw old Tom, even if this wasn't shown!) It does not matter whether Frodo stabbed at the Witch King's feet and invoked Elbereth when we are considering large plot points. It would have made the character richer, but it was not included for one reason or another. In the end, any representation of the character of Frodo Baggins other than Tolkien's will fall short or at least be different enough to lend credence to the argument that it is a different character. Elijah Wood is not Frodo Baggins. But he does a good enough job of invoking the spirit of Mr. Baggins in many (but not all!) particulars to allow me to suspend disbelief and forgive him a few missteps. I remain indebted to the movie for making me go back and re-read the books and for opening my eyes to things I never considered when I first read them (but which had lain dormant in my attic-like brain all the same!)

Cheers!
Lyta

alatar · 01-28-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyta_Underhill

But I think that Frodo of the movies is no more or less a master of his fate than Tolkien's Frodo. They are both in the same boat. They both make the same decisions when those decisions are shown. (Keep in mind that I just assume they went through the Barrowdowns and saw old Tom, even if this wasn't shown!) It does not matter whether Frodo stabbed at the Witch King's feet and invoked Elbereth when we are considering large plot points. It would have made the character richer, but it was not included for one reason or another. In the end, any representation of the character of Frodo Baggins other than Tolkien's will fall short or at least be different enough to lend credence to the argument that it is a different character. Elijah Wood is not Frodo Baggins. But he does a good enough job of invoking the spirit of Mr. Baggins in many (but not all!) particulars to allow me to suspend disbelief and forgive him a few missteps. I remain indebted to the movie for making me go back and re-read the books and for opening my eyes to things I never considered when I first read them (but which had lain dormant in my attic-like brain all the same!)

Thanks Lyta. Why the Movie-Frodo fails to appear to be in charge might be due to the 'missing scenes' in which Book-Frodo really asserts himself. In the Barrowdowns he could have cut and run, but didn't, and at the Fords he defies the Nine.

I would disagree in regards to Movie-Frodo's actions at Weathertop. Dropping his sword did not show courage but only helplessness and submission.

Note that I appreciate having the movies made, but if I were to have done them, they'd be much different - (a) no character would ever say, "She-Elf," and (b) they'd be terrible as I know nothing about movie making but only how to carp about the same.

Snorri Swifthammer · 01-28-2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alatar

(a) no character would ever say, "She-Elf,"

hear, hear!

Lathriel · 01-28-2005, 11:25 AM

Well, of course the book Frodo and movie Frodo can't be exactly the same because Frodo in the book has so much to him that it is difficult to portray everything.
Oh yes, part of all this eye rolling is also to show the audience who hasn't read the book how dangerous the ring is and trust me some people needed a LOT of convincing. (How many hours did I spend trying to tell my friends the ring was dangerous? I don't want to count)
I think that Elijah actually began to act better as the movies progressed cause I thought his acting was very good in ROTK. However the weathertop thing DID annoy me too.
As for Frodo being a victim. I remeber reading ROTK a few days ago and feeling incredibly sorry for Frodo as he was making his way through Mordor. (Tears were almost rolling across my cheeks) I think he is a victim but in the way of the ring. In the end the ring captures him, which is why he puts it on his finger at the cracks of Mount Doom. Doesn't all the sufferenig he has to go trough which is caused by the ring show that he is a victim. I think so. Same as with Gollum, he is still bound to the ring and therefore also becomes a victim because that bond becomes his death.
All in all I think Elijah did well with the material tha was given to him.

01-28-2005, 11:25 AM	#8
Lathriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME) Posts: 612	Well, of course the book Frodo and movie Frodo can't be exactly the same because Frodo in the book has so much to him that it is difficult to portray everything. Oh yes, part of all this eye rolling is also to show the audience who hasn't read the book how dangerous the ring is and trust me some people needed a LOT of convincing. (How many hours did I spend trying to tell my friends the ring was dangerous? I don't want to count) I think that Elijah actually began to act better as the movies progressed cause I thought his acting was very good in ROTK. However the weathertop thing DID annoy me too. As for Frodo being a victim. I remeber reading ROTK a few days ago and feeling incredibly sorry for Frodo as he was making his way through Mordor. (Tears were almost rolling across my cheeks) I think he is a victim but in the way of the ring. In the end the ring captures him, which is why he puts it on his finger at the cracks of Mount Doom. Doesn't all the sufferenig he has to go trough which is caused by the ring show that he is a victim. I think so. Same as with Gollum, he is still bound to the ring and therefore also becomes a victim because that bond becomes his death. All in all I think Elijah did well with the material tha was given to him. __________________ Back again

01-25-2005, 10:15 AM	#1
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	I was somewhat disappointed with the movie-Frodo, as he wasn't anything like the book-Frodo. As stated earlier I have no problem with Elijah Wood, but think that his character was poorly written. I will limit my comments to the movie-Frodo, and note that this is all from memory, so apologies for what I have confused etc. I was okay with Frodo up through Rivendell, with the exceptions of his actions on Weathertop ("Put it out!" Waaa!) and that he didn't confront the Nazgul at the Fords (that was PJ). I especially liked the part where he accepts the quest, though Gandalf's reaction to Frodo was better. After that, it's Frodo as victim-baggage. He doesn't know where to go, has to have Aragorn get the Ring from Boromir, gets a new 'do' from the same (just like a little child), gets caught by the Watcher, speared by a troll (though he did use his sword - what was PJ thinking? ), tossed across the gap in the bridge (caught in someones's arms like a babe), dragged away crying after Gandalf falls, outside walks away teary eyed, gets Galadriel-induced indigestion, almost gets sucked into her Mirror. Confronts Boromir, which was good, and hides from Uruk Hai, which is understandable but again if it weren't for Merry and Pippin, he'd still be hiding behind a tree. He saves Sam, and FOTR has Sam and Frodo going off to Mordor. In TTT, he falls from a rope, complains about the weather, whines about being lost, falls into the Marshes (luckily Gollum was there), gets captured by Faramir, whines a lot to Faramir about being 'let go,' almost hands over the Ring to a flying Nazgul (good thing that Sam was there) then is released by Faramir after Sam says some magic words. Frodo did help in the initial fight with Gollum, and he did save Sam at the Black Gate. In ROTK, Frodo whines about never returning, almost goes to Minas Morgul (good thing he wasn't alone), thinks that his best friend eats too much, gives Sam the boot because Sam is just being too harsh to Frodo's new big-eyed buddy, has an anxiety attack in Cirith Gorgul (not that I'd be really calm), is momentarily helpless as he is stranded in webs, gets bitten and wrapped, is almost killed by an Orc (good thing that Sam showed up), is whiny when forced to march with orcs, and struggles onto Mount Doom, gets immobilized by the Sauron searchlight, gets to Mount Doom and decides not to pitch the ring, gets saved yet again by Sam from taking a lava bath. Liked where he's Frodo again at the end of all things, and he's okay in the Green Dragon, and the end was okay. Note that many of these scenes are exactly from the book, yet the PJ version has me seeing Frodo as whiny, helpless and in need of a lot of assistance. Where's the noble Frodo from the book? He seemed to be more of a leader and also seemed to have more resolve. My long rambling point is that I rarely see movie-Frodo 'in charge, taking the lead, saving himself and heroic.' I can't get the book line out of my head where in ROTK Gandalf says to the hobbits something like, "that's what you were trained for..." in regards to cleaning up the Shire. To me, then, Frodo after his return is more like Gandalf, the wise one who does not fight but guides people in the right direction. He grew as a results of all of the trials that he had to overcome. Movie Frodo did not seem to grow as much, but was more like 'glad that that's over with.'

01-27-2005, 08:33 PM	#3
Vanwatholiel Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: In a dark corner of my mind. Don't look at me like that! I never liked you anyway. Stop staring! Posts: 40	I admit, sometimes Elijah's phony accent can bug me a little (okay, a lot). At the end of ROTK, when he turns and smiles on the ship from Mithlond, I automatically start crying. It just wrenches my heart. It's like all the pain and paleness and sorrow flee from his face and joy floods back in. Like you can see the same Frodo before he went on the quest. Before he earned all his heartache. Like, you can see the seventeen year old Elijah and not the 22year old Elijah. To put it simply, he became the Frodo before the quest. That part just makes me cry and cry! The look in his eyes...enchanting. sniff I'm sobbing now. sorry. sniff Ps. Question: I have read the books, saw the movies, and read all the other books written by Tolkien not related to LOTR but concerning Middle Earth, and I was wondering does Frodo go to Valinor or Tol Eressea? I believe it was Valinor, but it could have been Tol Eressea. Can the learned Tolkien people help me out? (I'm a Hobbit smoking Old Toby, the finest weed in the South Farthing)