New dudes and dudettes: Most annoying things about LOTR.

[TomBrady12]

You know, thats a very good point. I stand corrected.

[Essex]

Hello Assasin, defender of the movies here.

1/ re

Bormir wasn't so mean in FOTR.

You see, I think he WAS (if you mean FOTR the book?) And it took the movies to make me realise this when I re-read the books again last year. I can now see Book Boromir's petulance, and also his animosity towards Aragorn (but this is also reciprocated by Aragorn). It's fascinating what you pick up after watching the movies that gives a different light on the books, and makes you see them from a different angle sometimes.

2/ re

Faramir didn't even try to take the ring in the book.

Neither did Film Faramir. He attempted to bring Frodo back to Minas Tirith. In the book he WAS tempted to take the ring. And what was one of the major reasons why he did not? It was his WORD. He said he would not tkae the Enemy's weapon if it were lying by the road, BEFORE he knew what it was. WHen Sam gives the game away, he is tempted, oh yes, but he says himself he is held by his Word.

Off on a tangent time now - I don't agree with the detour to Osgiliath, but a detour is all it was. Film faramir, like book faramir, finally realises he needs to let Frodo go, and he does. Yes, I know we also see the Nazgul here, but as Jackson says in the commentary, he transposed the scene with the WK leaving Minas Morgul here, and Faramir shoots down the Nazgul to stop another Plot Hole developing (in my opinion).

[gorthaur_cruel]

In the book he WAS tempted to take the ring. And what was one of the major reasons why he did not? It was his WORD. He said he would not tkae the Enemy's weapon if it were lying by the road, BEFORE he knew what it was. WHen Sam gives the game away, he is tempted, oh yes, but he says himself he is held by his Word.

No, he wasn't. I suggest you re-read the passage.

'...Not if I found it on the highway would I take it I said. Even if I were such a man as to desire this thing, and even though I knew not clearly what this thing was when I spoke, still I should take those words as a vow, and be held by them.
'But I am not such a man. Or I am wise enough to know that there are some perils from which a mn must flee. Sit at peace! And be comforted, Samwise...

Faramir's saying that he wouldn't take the Ring whether he desired it or not. If he desired it, he wouldn't take it because of his vow. If he didn't desire it, he wouldn't take it because...he doesn't desire it. And the first sentence of the second paragraph makes it clear that he is the latter.

[Essex]

gorthaur, have a re-read of this bit yourself.

'So it seems,' said Faramir, slowly and very softly, with a strange smile. `So that is the answer to all the riddles! The One Ring that was thought to have perished from the world. And Boromir tried to take it by force? And you escaped? And ran all the way – to me! And here in the wild I have you: two halflings, and a host of men at my call, and the Ring of Rings. A pretty stroke of fortune! A chance for Faramir, Captain of Gondor, to show his quality! Ha!' He stood up, very tall and stern, his grey eyes glinting.

you think he was just having a laugh saying this? like Sam later on, he was tempted, but managed to beat this temptation.

there is a lot more to Faramir's character than just a Wizard's pet. He is a master interrogator, a leader of men, a noble prince, from the blood of numenor, but still human after all and thus tempted by the Ring.

Also, as you have shown in the quote you posted, Faramir also insinuates that he was tempted.

'But I am not such a man. Or I am wise enough to know that there are some perils from which a man must flee.

What he is implying in the second sentence is that he is tempted, but is wise enough to leave well alone. Just like his tutor Gandalf earlier in Bag End and in the Council of Elrond.

[Neithan]

What he is implying in the second sentence is that he is tempted, but is wise enough to leave well alone.

And in the movie he was not so wise, which is the whole point behind this argument. It is not fair to Faramir's character to have him foolishly try to bring the Ring to his father and only do the right thing later when the book charcter was wise enough to know the right thing from the start.

[Essex]

yes, they build on this temptation I admit which causes the day trip to osgiliath. I did not say I liked or agreed with this scene, it's just that it's a detour and that's all. (and I've explained the point about the nazgul)

Another line from Faramir that shows he knows the peril of the ring,

I do not wish to see it, or touch it, or know more of it than I know (which is enough), lest peril perchance waylay me and I fall lower in the test than Frodo son of Drogo

In the book we had the advantage of a lot of dialouge before hand that helped sway Faramir's decision. in movie land we do not have this advantage. the faramir scenes, to me, are one of the best written dialouges in the whole trilogy. The way Faramir is a master interrogator, and finally gets what he wants from Sam is a masterful piece of writing.

If lotr was filmes as a mini series, then I would love to see these scenes acted out (as they were somewhat in Brian Sibley's radio adaptation). but in an action movie made for the masses, alas we do not have this.

[Boromir88]

I don't find Faramir taking the ring to Osgiliath to make much of a difference. TTT EE explains Faramir a lot better and the reasons behind taking the ring to Osgiliath. And in the end he does make the decision by himself to let Frodo go. So, I don't see a big problem with that scene (besides the ringwraith).

For most of the things PJ gives an explanation for (check the appendices) and I find them quite reasonable.

[gorthaur_cruel]

A matter of interpretation, I guess. I always took this quote:

'But I am not such a man. Or I am wise enough to know that there are some perils from which a man must flee.

to be what I said it was. He says that he is wise enough to flee from certain perils, which shows that overall, he doesn't want the Ring.

The thing you're describing is merely that Faramir, of course, has a desire of the Ring, but forget to mention that his rejection is bigger than his desire. Thus, he is not 'tempted'. It's as if you were asked if you'd be given a large chunk of gold in exchange for being blind and deaf for the rest of your life. You'd want the gold, but you'd not have the gold if it means losing your sight and hearing. You don't have to think twice about it; you don't want it. In that way, Faramir is not tempted by the Ring; overall, he doesn't want the Ring.

Still, I can see how you can see it the other way. Like I said, a matter of interpretation. But even if movie Faramir was tempted to take the Ring, it was only for a split second. And in another attempt to flatten out and 'humanize' all the characters, Faramir falls to the temptation for quite a long time. What makes him different from Boromir? After all, he repents too, in the end.

...and Faramir's supposed to be one of Tolkien's favorite characters.