Lord of the Rings, rated PGP - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lyta_Underhill · 01-17-2005, 10:57 AM

Oh, goody! A thread on physics in Middle Earth! Just for jollies, I thought I'd add a link or two for those of you (like me) who have thought about such things before and sought out those more expert than ourselves (at least more expert than me!). TOR.net has a section entitled "Green Books," which contains an ongoing series called "The Science of Middle Earth," which is also being released as a book on Amazon.com here: The Science of Middle Earth
Articles on TOR.net include:
Introduction
What do your Elf-eyes see?
Notion Club Papers
Mithril
Fëanor's Laboratory
Yet Another Take on Balrog Wings
How Tall IS a Mallorn Tree?
My favorite bit in these articles must be the postulation that the palantiri are made of an alternating layered structure of lithium niobate and beta carbon nitride in order to lend it holographic properties and adequate hardness. What fun!

As for the stairs up to the top of Orthanc, wouldn't a well hidden trap door be enough; after all, Dwarf doors can be made invisible, so why not Numenorean doors?

As for Gimli-throwing, I'd think he would go pretty far, as he is short AND heavy, thus being built more like a cannonball than any of the other members of the Fellowship. I guess Aragorn would just have to give him a good initial trajectory and then the physics of ballistic motion would take over. (I may have enjoyed physics, but I can't remember the equation anymore!)

Plus, if we postulate that Legolas' arrow could have reached the level of the top of Orthanc, would it come down straight? If I'm not mistaken, wouldn't a long weighted object turn end over end as it traveled through the air? This, of course, doesn't rule out it having sufficient gravitational impetus to make disposition of Grima, but it does seem unlikely to me. However, a bullet fired in the air could easily accomplish this task and has (I read a news story of an unfortunate man in my area who fired a pistol in the air and was struck by his own bullet coming back down. What bad luck!) All that aside, I think Orli-Legolas should have kept his arrow in the quiver and not engaged in such reprehensible, if picturesque, behavior anyway!

Cheers!
Lyta

Assasin · 01-24-2005, 05:41 PM

I think the arrow would do whatever Tolkien wanted it to do, he's the puppet master. I also want to know why didn't Aragorn die when he fell over the cliff thing? And I know elves are like, really perfect, and everything, but how could Leggy "surf" down the steps? My sister tried to do that. Bozo. Lord of the rings is potentially harmful for the stupid people who try to do the elf stunts. I also want to know why Arwen didn't get hit by the massive flow of "Horse Water" in FOTR. I hear Liv fell of the horse a number of times! Hee hee!

Nukapei · 01-24-2005, 05:49 PM

The problem is that a lot of those instances are in the movies and not the books. For example, Aragorn has no problems with "dying" on the way to Helm's Deep, Leggy never "surfs" down a flight of stairs, Arwen wasn't even near the fords when the "horse waters" came (it was just Frodo, and he was on the far bank), etc. The rest is pure physics!

As for your sister trying out the "surfing" stunt . . . that's kind of unfair to blame the movies for that. That's like saying no movie should have any stunt because people might want to copy them. People just need to have the common sense to understand that that is a movie, this is real life. Yeah, surfing down a flight of stairs isn't realistic, but neither is Elves doing it!

Lalwendë · 01-25-2005, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assasin

And I know elves are like, really perfect, and everything, but how could Leggy "surf" down the steps? My sister tried to do that. Bozo. Lord of the rings is potentially harmful for the stupid people who try to do the elf stunts.

Careful, you'll have people wanting LotR 'banned' because it could be potentially harmful, especially in this litigious culture that even bans games of conkers for fear of lawsuits! I just hope your sister never watches anything by Johnny Knoxville then.

I think the whole 'surfing on a shield' thing would have been feasible. I spent many a happy hour as a child bombing down the stairs in my friend's house, perched on a tea tray 'sled'. Alas our games eventually came to an end when her father decided to take a turn at this and ended up in hospital. Though I'm quite sure an Elf would be far more agile than a lorry driver with a back complaint

Assasin · 01-25-2005, 02:52 PM

Ok, maybe it was just my sisters stupidity. And, Nukapei, I was talking about the movies, I usually refer to the movies, because I haven't read the books in a while. Maybe I'll read them this week.

01-17-2005, 10:57 AM	#1
Lyta_Underhill Haunted Halfling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules Posts: 841	Physical Amusements Oh, goody! A thread on physics in Middle Earth! Just for jollies, I thought I'd add a link or two for those of you (like me) who have thought about such things before and sought out those more expert than ourselves (at least more expert than me!). TOR.net has a section entitled "Green Books," which contains an ongoing series called "The Science of Middle Earth," which is also being released as a book on Amazon.com here: The Science of Middle Earth Articles on TOR.net include: Introduction What do your Elf-eyes see? Notion Club Papers Mithril Fëanor's Laboratory Yet Another Take on Balrog Wings How Tall IS a Mallorn Tree? My favorite bit in these articles must be the postulation that the palantiri are made of an alternating layered structure of lithium niobate and beta carbon nitride in order to lend it holographic properties and adequate hardness. What fun! As for the stairs up to the top of Orthanc, wouldn't a well hidden trap door be enough; after all, Dwarf doors can be made invisible, so why not Numenorean doors? As for Gimli-throwing, I'd think he would go pretty far, as he is short AND heavy, thus being built more like a cannonball than any of the other members of the Fellowship. I guess Aragorn would just have to give him a good initial trajectory and then the physics of ballistic motion would take over. (I may have enjoyed physics, but I can't remember the equation anymore!) Plus, if we postulate that Legolas' arrow could have reached the level of the top of Orthanc, would it come down straight? If I'm not mistaken, wouldn't a long weighted object turn end over end as it traveled through the air? This, of course, doesn't rule out it having sufficient gravitational impetus to make disposition of Grima, but it does seem unlikely to me. However, a bullet fired in the air could easily accomplish this task and has (I read a news story of an unfortunate man in my area who fired a pistol in the air and was struck by his own bullet coming back down. What bad luck!) All that aside, I think Orli-Legolas should have kept his arrow in the quiver and not engaged in such reprehensible, if picturesque, behavior anyway! Cheers! Lyta __________________ “…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.”

01-24-2005, 05:41 PM	#2
Assasin Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a desert. Posts: 142	I think the arrow would do whatever Tolkien wanted it to do, he's the puppet master. I also want to know why didn't Aragorn die when he fell over the cliff thing? And I know elves are like, really perfect, and everything, but how could Leggy "surf" down the steps? My sister tried to do that. Bozo. Lord of the rings is potentially harmful for the stupid people who try to do the elf stunts. I also want to know why Arwen didn't get hit by the massive flow of "Horse Water" in FOTR. I hear Liv fell of the horse a number of times! Hee hee! __________________ Death is as light as a feather, duty is as heavy as a mountain.

01-24-2005, 05:49 PM	#3
Nukapei Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 80	The problem is that a lot of those instances are in the movies and not the books. For example, Aragorn has no problems with "dying" on the way to Helm's Deep, Leggy never "surfs" down a flight of stairs, Arwen wasn't even near the fords when the "horse waters" came (it was just Frodo, and he was on the far bank), etc. The rest is pure physics! As for your sister trying out the "surfing" stunt . . . that's kind of unfair to blame the movies for that. That's like saying no movie should have any stunt because people might want to copy them. People just need to have the common sense to understand that that is a movie, this is real life. Yeah, surfing down a flight of stairs isn't realistic, but neither is Elves doing it! __________________ *Gwend sui lotheg i edlothia an-uir.* Friendship is like a flower that blooms forever. Avatar image by the amazing Gold-Seven. site \| RPG Last edited by Nukapei; 01-24-2005 at 05:53 PM.

01-25-2005, 02:52 PM	#5
Assasin Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a desert. Posts: 142	Ok, maybe it was just my sisters stupidity. And, Nukapei, I was talking about the movies, I usually refer to the movies, because I haven't read the books in a while. Maybe I'll read them this week. __________________ Death is as light as a feather, duty is as heavy as a mountain.