Saruman's fireball - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lolidir · 01-13-2005, 06:28 PM

one thing that hs to be made clear, and it is in many other discussions so i wont say to much about it.

in the books Tolkien doesnt use magic that way other writers do like Harry Potter for example. Tolkien's magic is more of a person's power over nature and its more suttle. like Sarumon using words to cast spells, or Galadriel being able to tel future and talk to people. its more suttle things like that. Tolkien doesnt do things like some one causing a big explosion and killing a massive amount of people. but as i said that is covered in other threads so go look into those.

one thing you have to remember is that the people did what they wanted to with the movie, and the movies are almost never as good as the books. you can always find something to pick about. they might have put it in there just to make you complain or to make you think or maybe they did it because they thougth that it would be cool

Rose Cotton · 01-17-2005, 07:36 PM

Quote:

in the books Tolkien doesnt use magic that way other writers do like Harry Potter for example. Tolkien's magic is more of a person's power over nature and its more suttle. like Sarumon using words to cast spells, or Galadriel being able to tel future and talk to people. its more suttle things like that. Tolkien doesnt do things like some one causing a big explosion and killing a massive amount of people. but as i said that is covered in other threads so go look into those.

That is a good point. When I saw the fireball it didn't bother me because it was a deviation from the books. There was something else about it that I just couldn't put my finger on. Then I figured it out. I was magic.

In the book magic is often alluded to but it is suble is it is seen at all. And most of it is so enveloped in the world that we don't even think of it as magic anymore.

Ex. Legolas walking on the snow, the ring turning the bearer invisible, talking trees (ents), a flaming eye

I wasn't until I saw that fireball that I realized how much magic was in the movies that I took for granted and never even questioned. The fireball was just such sudden and obvious magic that it was obvious that it was not real.

I'm not saying that it was a bad choice on the part of PJ. It was nessisary to show Gandalf's domination over Saruman to a large audience. However I am saying that it is a bit of magic that does not really fit into Tolkien's world.

Finwe-89 · 01-18-2005, 04:00 AM

I don't have a real problem with it, but like some already said: ''Why didn't he set the Ents in flames?!'' That's something I don't understand, and it's not that his power has become weaker. Because he can shoot Gandalf with his flames, so why not the Ents? Ok, Gandalf survived the fireball, because Gandalf is stronger and Saruman has become weaker, but not that weak! He could easly shoot the Ents.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 01-18-2005, 08:14 AM

Rose, I would only call one of those examples magic: the invisibility, and that's only because it originated in The Hobbit, a book for children and full of classic magic.

Flaming eyeball? Didn't happen. Walking on snow? Mere skill. Ents? A different race, is all.

I think non-book readers take this as magic for granted, just because it's different and involves a little imagination.

And I don't know why I'm bothering to be picky with you because I basically agree with your point!

01-13-2005, 06:28 PM	#1
Lolidir Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Roaming the plains of Middle Earth Posts: 103	one thing that hs to be made clear, and it is in many other discussions so i wont say to much about it. in the books Tolkien doesnt use magic that way other writers do like Harry Potter for example. Tolkien's magic is more of a person's power over nature and its more suttle. like Sarumon using words to cast spells, or Galadriel being able to tel future and talk to people. its more suttle things like that. Tolkien doesnt do things like some one causing a big explosion and killing a massive amount of people. but as i said that is covered in other threads so go look into those. one thing you have to remember is that the people did what they wanted to with the movie, and the movies are almost never as good as the books. you can always find something to pick about. they might have put it in there just to make you complain or to make you think or maybe they did it because they thougth that it would be cool __________________ "Its a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to"

01-18-2005, 04:00 AM	#3
Finwe-89 Wight Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In Lotholorien, looking in the mirror that shows that there is still hope for life... Posts: 84	I don't have a real problem with it, but like some already said: ''Why didn't he set the Ents in flames?!'' That's something I don't understand, and it's not that his power has become weaker. Because he can shoot Gandalf with his flames, so why not the Ents? Ok, Gandalf survived the fireball, because Gandalf is stronger and Saruman has become weaker, but not that weak! He could easly shoot the Ents. __________________ Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum- ishi krimpatul... Beware: Don't speak this loud when you're alone in the dark... Unless you really want it... But don't say I didn't warn you...

01-18-2005, 08:14 AM	#4
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Rose, I would only call one of those examples magic: the invisibility, and that's only because it originated in The Hobbit, a book for children and full of classic magic. Flaming eyeball? Didn't happen. Walking on snow? Mere skill. Ents? A different race, is all. I think non-book readers take this as magic for granted, just because it's different and involves a little imagination. And I don't know why I'm bothering to be picky with you because I basically agree with your point! __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond