None that can hurt him? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-12-2005, 12:43 AM

perhaps aragorn was wary, because legolas's bow and gimli's axe had already been defeated. in that case, gandalf would simply have had to move his staff ever so slightly, and aragorn would fail. and also, Isildur would have been in fury, for his father had just recieved a fatal wound.

Lolidir · 01-12-2005, 08:03 PM

heres a thought. maybe he just says that to demonstrate his new level of power. there is a weapon that can defeat everyone so to say that there is none would be ignorant. maybe it was meant that if he died he would come back. so while we are throwing out ideas why not this one. meybe it was just a boast of his powers to give them some encouraging and some motivation to keep on with their task.

Mad Baggins · 01-12-2005, 08:34 PM

Perhaps he meant that, like Oddwen said, Anduril is only dangerous against evil beings. This could prove that although Aragorn believed that Gandalf was evil and had the intent to harm him, Anduril "knew" that Gandalf was not evil and therefore could not hurt him. It could also mean that Gandalf could defeat Anduril because it is (for lack of a better word) a "good" weapon and not an evil one of the same potency:

Quote:

...Gandalf the White, but Black is mightier still.

Lhunardawen · 01-14-2005, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HI

The reason why Gandalf could not be hurt is probably (without textual evidence, but as plausible a theory as I could think of) the fact he is now 'clothed' maia, returned to his original form (though maybe spirit returned to his 'human' body lying on the summit of Redhorn), not fully and finally incarnate as he has been before. So even Andúril would not hurt him - how physical thing can harm spirit?

An interesting theory, no doubt. But isn't Gandalf the Gray Maia as well? The Istari (or you

) have only been commanded by the Valar not to show the true extent of their powers, among others. So they are residing in human flesh in the form of wizards, but their spirits are still Maiar nonetheless. And it is this fact that made Gandalf's "ascension" to the White possible; otherwise he would have remained in Caradhras, a wizard clothed in gray. Gandalf the White is still like the Gray, albeit of a higher power. He is still in the form of man, and can be killed. Perhaps it is just his greater power that could protect him from the three's attacks.

radagastly · 01-14-2005, 11:46 PM

Quote:

But isn't Gandalf the Gray Maia as well?

Well, yes, he is, of course. Unfortunately, I'm at work right now and don't have my books with me, so I can't cite anything specific. I believe that the Wizards were not merely "clothed" in human form, but actually incarnate as human. They aged, they needed food and rest and water, they felt pain and discomfort. Gandalf died in his fight with the Balrog, and he died for real. A "clothed" Maia spirit would have simply shuffled off this mortal coil, so to speak, and headed back to Aman to pick up a new one, or made a new one for themselves right then and there. (I'm not sure how that works, exactly.)

Gandalf the WHITE , on the other hand, was indeed merely "clothed" in human form (possibly--I don't think there's any evidence to say for sure. I tend to think the line cited as the title of this thread implies that, though.) and as such, his body could be hurt, but he would not 'die' as he did in Moria. He would become an invisible spirit, as he was before.

I don't think I'm explaining this very well . . .

Oh, well. Did my best.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-15-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radagastly

Gandalf the WHITE , on the other hand, was indeed merely "clothed" in human form ...

If this was the case, how come Pippin was able to take the Palantir of Orthanc from him while he slept? If he was merely "clothed" rather than incarnate, he would have no need of sleep. And I believe that he is referred to as eating in Minas Tirith too.

Based on this, I think that Lhuna is right. Gandalf the White was just as much incarnate as Gandalf the Grey.

Lhunardawen · 01-16-2005, 11:51 PM

I was preparing for my CbC post for "The White Rider" when I saw this...

Quote:

...But we have One, the White Rider. He has passed through the fire and the abyss and they shall fear him.

This was said by Aragorn. I believe that with Gandalf's power came another that is completely opposite the Nazgul's. If their mere presence caused fear in the hearts of Men, so will Gandalf be feared by his enemies. This fear does not work for Aragorn and the rest, though...but his renewed (and greater) strength could have been enough to ward off their advances.

01-12-2005, 08:03 PM	#2
Lolidir Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Roaming the plains of Middle Earth Posts: 103	heres a thought. maybe he just says that to demonstrate his new level of power. there is a weapon that can defeat everyone so to say that there is none would be ignorant. maybe it was meant that if he died he would come back. so while we are throwing out ideas why not this one. meybe it was just a boast of his powers to give them some encouraging and some motivation to keep on with their task. __________________ "Its a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to"

01-12-2005, 12:43 AM	#1
orlandoscowgal Guest Posts: n/a	perhaps aragorn was wary, because legolas's bow and gimli's axe had already been defeated. in that case, gandalf would simply have had to move his staff ever so slightly, and aragorn would fail. and also, Isildur would have been in fury, for his father had just recieved a fatal wound.