What did the movie help you "recover"

[radagastly]

Fordim, you do have a knack. I wish you had been my teacher.

I should also say that my comments are all rooted in the Extended Editions of the movies as I never saw the need to buy the theatrical versions. They're more ripe with character development anyway, as Peter Jackson said.

The first thing that comes to mind is a very brief scene, a couple of shots, really.

Sam says, "Look, Frodo! It's Mister Bilbo's trolls!"

I know in the book, this scene takes place in the daylight, and is a humorous lull from the painful trek from Weathertop, and it doesn't really recall the scene from The Fellowship, but it does bring back what Tolkien called "Bilbo's first serious adventure." The stone trolls seem more frightening in the film than they do when the four hobbits encounter them, but they are every bit as scary as they are when Bilbo encounters them. It's important that Sam is the one who says it. It was HIS troll song, after all.

Isn't it funny how little details like this escape you when you are re-reading, and come back to you when seen through new eyes? There is the image of Frodo and Sam in orc armor approaching the plains of Gorgorath that I thought was captured perfectly, without a word really, that had lost it's humor (or perhaps whimsy would be a better word) for me many years ago. The scene of Merry and Pippin smoking Saruman's pipeweed and getting a little drunk on his wine had become (for me) a structural necessity and a source of exposition, and had long since lost (some, not all of) its fun. For me, it had become a brief moment of joy at the reunion of this much of the Fellowship. Merry and Pippin were finally SAFE. The comedy of their display had departed.

I've noticed that there seems to be a theme to what I felt when I watched the movies compared to when I read the books. It has to do with the moments of humor. I think the movies very much brought back to me Tolkien's humor. He uses humor a lot to difuse the tension momentarily, for a few pages, then gets back to the action. When you're aware of the pending action, and you've heard the jokes before, I think I (at least) tend to simply accept the 'funny' as what it is, and then move on to the more "serious" parts of the book. P.J. and company gave me back much of what I had been missing.

Just as a side note, I must say, I agree with you about Frodo's smile on the Last Ship. When you mentioned it, I immediately looked it up. What I noticed is that Tolkien capitalizes the word 'West.'

And the ship went out into the High Seas and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain, Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a a far green country under a swift sunrise.

It's kinda all there in that smile, isn't it?

[The Saucepan Man]

This is slightly different from the question that you asked, Fordim, but there are two primarly respects in which the films have improved my experience of LotR and Tolkien's other works.

First, while the visualisation of Middle-earth in the films largely matched the images in my own imagination, there are a number of areas where it has actually improved on them. One example which springs to mind is Theoden. I had always imagined the King of Rohan as an older man with a long snowy white beard. I much prefer the image that Bernard Hill presents, and so I have "stolen" it for my own imagination. I also always had immense difficulties imagining what Ents actually looked like. Now I have a great image, based on (although not entirely identical to) their portrayal in the films.

Secondly, I had not read LotR for many years before the films came out. And I had never read The Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales. On watching the first film, I immediately went home and started reading the book. The films brought me back to the book, and to Tolkien's wider world. They also brought me to the Downs, since my first exploration of the internet in the context of Tolkien was in relation to the films, to find out who had been cast in the various roles and what they looked like. This, in turn, brought me to the Downs and ultimately (although some time later) the Discussion Forum. And that has brought to me a much wider knowledge of and broader insight into Tolkien's works than I had ever previously imagined was possible. But for the films, I might not be here (which may, in itself, be a reason for others to curse the films ).

[Boromir88]

I only have time for a quick reply, hopefully I can get back here later, it looks like another great thread that Fordhim has started.

I see Theoden's name popping up a lot, and to add something that no one has said yet and that really got me to see a different side to Theoden....

Besides the fact that Bernard Hill does a wonderful job acting, I love the added scenes with Theoden and Eowyn. There's this deep bond between them, that I didn't really feel in the book. Theoden just basically told Eowyn what to do. I mean when Theoden rides off to Helm's Deep and has to choose an heir if he doesn't return, he even forgets about Eowyn, and has to be reminded of her. In the movie, I loved the scenes between Otto and Hill. The dialogue between them...

"No...you must do this, for me."

Eowyn: What other duty would you have me do my lord?
Theoden: Duty? No...I would have you smile again, not grieve for those who's time has come.

And then the lovely ROTK EE scene, where Eowyn is fighting ferociously next to Theoden. Theoden doesn't know it's her, and just gets that look like "who is this person?"

I think this case is more like SpM's, that it improved my experience in LOTR.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

I read the books coupled with the movies. I was aware of the books before the movies but hadn't been openly obsessed with them. When I went to college I started re-reading them and saw the movies at the same time so LOTR became a vital center of my universe. But now as I look at it I'm able to distinguish between movie and book because fortunately i read each book before I saw the movie, but LOTR isn't refreshing. My view of the books isn't refreshed by seeing the movie and vice versa. They have blended together while still being separate, does anyone understand what I mean? It is now a piece of literary work that I can understand as a piece of greatness but I can't grasp the same high that I experienced when I first read the books. I'm not saying that I'm tired of the books or the movies, I'm saying that it's like looking at hours and hours of Monet and appreciating their beauty but not being able to completely grasp it. Has anyone else shared a similiar experience?

[Lalwendë]

The only area of the books which I failed to get a concrete grasp on was what Saruman might look like, how he might behave, and how he might speak. My image of him was always 'shifting' in my mind - which is odd considering his nature - or perhaps it was because of his nature that I never fully got a handle on him. However, now the films have been made I do imagine Saruman as Chris Lee plays him, so I would suppose that this is something I have 'recovered'. I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing myself; perhaps I was meant to have no fixed image of him? As for the rest of the books, I imagine them more or less as I always did imagine them, though elements of the films have crept in, as that would be difficult to avoid with such a visually impressive film.

Originally Posted by SpM

I also always had immense difficulties imagining what Ents actually looked like. Now I have a great image, based on (although not entirely identical to) their portrayal in the films.

Now I always had a pretty vivid idea of Ents! I'm one of those people who sees faces and hands and the like in the twisty shapes of trees so I always imagined Ents to be like that, a very peculiar, exceptionally characterful tree.

But, the films have recovered something pretty important, and that's not to do with my images of anything. It's that all the Tolkien fans have finally emerged, blinking, into the daylight!

[Evisse the Blue]

Originally Posted by AbercrombieOfRohan

It is now a piece of literary work that I can understand as a piece of greatness but I can't grasp the same high that I experienced when I first read the books. I'm not saying that I'm tired of the books or the movies, I'm saying that it's like looking at hours and hours of Monet and appreciating their beauty but not being able to completely grasp it. Has anyone else shared a similiar experience?

In a way, yes, I think I have. The first time is always special. It's a bit weird actually that I try, with each reading to grasp the same emotional high, as you put it. Actually this is one of the main reasons why I re-read, and why I watch the movies as well.

Ok back to the scenes that helped me recover some parts of the book that I had not payed enough attention:

The final scene: I never really cared for the ending in the book, I had always found it simplistic and somewhat dissapointing. When I saw it in the movie, though, I got tears in my eyes (perhaps you should make a poll how many of us cried at the movies, Fordim, since I can see you're in the mood for it lately ). The movie version revealed to me the true beauty of that scene, its meaning - the simple pleasures of a hobbit's life: that's what it's all about. That's what Frodo was fighting for, that's what kept Sam going throughout all the horror. It's sort of Tolkien's way of saying to you to value food and cheer and flowers in the garden over 'hoarded gold' or bombastic endings, if you will.

The Ride of the Rohirrim would have been my choice as well, but that I found pretty impressive in the book too. Still, it's one of the best scenes in movie history, ever. (though I don't claim to know that much about movie history)

Boromir was for me too a revelation (due mostly to the great role by Sean Bean) - he made me like Boromir and see things from his point of view, which never happened during the book. Even though Tolkien tried sometimes to make Boromir more likeable, he 'made it up' by adding stuff which made him even more dislikeable than before, culminating with his famous trespassing. The end redeemed him somehow, but still (*gasp*) I think I prefer the end in the movies.

Originally Posted by Lalwende

But, the films have recovered something pretty important, and that's not to do with my images of anything. It's that all the Tolkien fans have finally emerged, blinking, into the daylight!

I did emerge into the daylight blinking to see the movies, but then went straight back to my hole in the ground!

[Lyta_Underhill]

Yet another great thread idea from Fordim's endless reservoir of analysis and appreciation and lots of theorizing as well! I find it irresistible to add a bit of my own thoughts on this theme:

I must second and third the impact of the film Boromir on my appreciation of the books, as Sean Bean humanized the Great Man of Gondor into a man conflicted by his nature, who recognizes it and redeems his fall almost immediately and far-reachingly. If it had not been for this newfound appreciation for Boromir, I doubt I would have found the additional depths in Pippin, who subsequently became one of my absolute favorite characters. The resonance between Boromir and Pippin (and also parallelled by the Merry-Theoden and Pippin-Denethor relationships) fleshed out an important aspect of hobbit nature that I could not have lived without now that I think about it. This development tied together all of Middle Earth in an important way for me.

Another aspect of the movie that brought the book to new life were the Ents, an important subconscious image that buried itself deeply in my mind the first time I read the books and subsequently surfaced in strange ways over and over again throughout the years. Seeing them and watching their interactions with the newly expanded hobbits made my mind explode in a real 'faerie' way, if that makes any sense. It was almost like eating the faerie star Tolkien presents in "Smith of Wootton Major." But there were many things that gained this level as I re-read LOTR several times thereafter and finally made it through the Silmarillion (twice in a row...) and on to the other tales. It was like finally seeing a magical figure that had been standing in front of me and waving its arms frantically for years!

There is more, but I will probably have to return later to finish my thoughts. Great thread!

Cheers!
Lyta