Celebrian's Misfortunes

[Neurion]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

Alas, my fears have been realized. Although Tolkien never directly confirms it, it seems that this really was the direction they were headed. The quote about the Elves taking other spouses doesn't really suffice against this. Celebrian was of a royal lineage, & the spouse of Elrond, Lord of Rivendelle. I doubt that they'd just easily slay her for that, & what greater way than to torment a noble elven-woman than to defile her body against her will. A poisoned wound doesn't only need to be within the confines of the physical aspect. What a victim of rape feels during the aftermath is "poisoned-wound" enough, just like Frodo's mental anguish after the whole ordeal of his mission.

I can see where this is heading........

If Tolkien wanted to imply that Celebrian was assaulted in such a way I'm sure he would not have resorted to such a circurtious and cryptic circumlocution to say so.

And I think we've all dwelt on this long enough now.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Originally Posted by Neurion

I can see where this is heading........

If Tolkien wanted to imply that Celebrian was assaulted in such a way I'm sure he would not have resorted to such a circurtious and cryptic circumlocution to say so.

And I think we've all dwelt on this long enough now.

Did you not read Bethberry's post? Religion played a part on his cryptic input. Did not the soldiers of WW2 raped? And his writings were for the most part, based on those experiences. Not implying anything, just a thought.

[Neurion]

Originally Posted by Gorthaur the Cruel

Did you not read Bethberry's post? Religion played a part on his cryptic input. Did not the soldiers of WW2 raped? And his writings were for the most part, based on those experiences. Not implying anything, just a thought.

One would think you were implying something.

As to WWII soldiers, on the whole, Axis generaly yes, Allied generaly no, with the notable exception of the Russians and French colonial troops.

The bottom line is, you're set on believing that Celebrian was raped on flimsy evidence and guessing. the tone of your posts confirm this ("All my worst fears have been confirmed!" sheesh). The obvious course to take after getting settled on this "fact" is to start wondering where else in M-E such occurences took place. "Gee, according to some unpublished papers, Eol took Aredhel to wife by force." "Maybe Finduilas was outraged by the orcs before they killed her." Please don't take this any further.

As I said before, if Tolkien wanted to say so, he would have in plainer style. The incident with Turin and the outlaws points to this.

I've discussed this enough. I'm taking my leave.