Tolkien & Lewis - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Child of the 7th Age · 01-04-2004, 03:23 AM

I do think there are two sides of this sad situation. For example, Tolkien found out that Lewis had married by reading the notice in the newspaper. Lewis never told him personally, presumably because he knew that JRRT would disapprove. Earlier JRRT had had Joy to his house, and she had actually gotten on quite well with Edith.

Given these facts, I would find the deliberate secrecy by Lewis hard to accept. So I believe that hurt feelings contributed to this split between the men, as well as Tolkien's discomfort with Lewis marrying a divorced woman.

Regarding the whole issue of women and how they were accepted by the Inklings.... Ironically, Lewis himself was not always open to women before he met his wife. In fact, his writings have been criticized by many (and I admit to feeling this way) as being more ambivalent about women than those of Tolkien. (There is no equivalent to Luthien, for example.)

It was only in Till We Have Faces that Lewis was able to go beyond his more limited views and produce a work that looked at female characters in a truly perceptive and sympathetic way. (This is a marvelous book, BTW.) Not surprisingly, this work was written only after Lewis' marriage. I do think his new wife helped Lewis to break through some of his earlier stereotypes.

The Inklings' record as a whole was not great on women. Sayers met with the group for a time, but never felt completely welcome either by Lewis or anyone else. Was this the result of gender or personality differences? Perhaps a little of both.

But we do have to remember that Lewis' wife was not an academic -- she was a journalist, I believe. With the exception of Williams who was employed by a publisher, most of the Inklings were academics. And they may have felt some ambivalence about having a non-academic they did not know well brought into the group. None of this "excuses" their behavior, but it does suggest the situation was more complicated than a simple case of rights and wrongs.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:40 AM January 04, 2004: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

01-04-2004, 03:23 AM	#30
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	I do think there are two sides of this sad situation. For example, Tolkien found out that Lewis had married by reading the notice in the newspaper. Lewis never told him personally, presumably because he knew that JRRT would disapprove. Earlier JRRT had had Joy to his house, and she had actually gotten on quite well with Edith. Given these facts, I would find the deliberate secrecy by Lewis hard to accept. So I believe that hurt feelings contributed to this split between the men, as well as Tolkien's discomfort with Lewis marrying a divorced woman. Regarding the whole issue of women and how they were accepted by the Inklings.... Ironically, Lewis himself was not always open to women before he met his wife. In fact, his writings have been criticized by many (and I admit to feeling this way) as being more ambivalent about women than those of Tolkien. (There is no equivalent to Luthien, for example.) It was only in Till We Have Faces that Lewis was able to go beyond his more limited views and produce a work that looked at female characters in a truly perceptive and sympathetic way. (This is a marvelous book, BTW.) Not surprisingly, this work was written only after Lewis' marriage. I do think his new wife helped Lewis to break through some of his earlier stereotypes. The Inklings' record as a whole was not great on women. Sayers met with the group for a time, but never felt completely welcome either by Lewis or anyone else. Was this the result of gender or personality differences? Perhaps a little of both. But we do have to remember that Lewis' wife was not an academic -- she was a journalist, I believe. With the exception of Williams who was employed by a publisher, most of the Inklings were academics. And they may have felt some ambivalence about having a non-academic they did not know well brought into the group. None of this "excuses" their behavior, but it does suggest the situation was more complicated than a simple case of rights and wrongs. <font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:40 AM January 04, 2004: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.