Did anyone know? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Neithan · 12-23-2004, 11:11 AM

Quote:

None knew at that time whence they were, save Círdan of the Havens, and only to Elrond and to Galadriel did he reveal that they came over the Sea. ---from the Sil

Surely if they did not know where the Istari where from, then they did not know what they were.

Boromir88 · 12-23-2004, 11:14 AM

Feanor, nice point about the Witch-King, a good possibility. I don't think there is anything that would show Bombadil knows about it.

Thanks for the quote neithan, it's definately helpful.

Lalwendë · 12-23-2004, 01:01 PM

There's always the possibility that those of the Noldor who returned to Beleriand knew of the Istari from the Undying Lands. I would imagine such figures would have been well known, or at least known of. There are hints that there were possibly more Istari, and characters such as Galadriel may have recognised their qualities in Gandalf and Saruman, even if she had never previously met them.

Sauron himself may have recognised them as he was on something of an equal footing, hierarchically speaking. The Istari may have travelled in the disguise of elderly men, but I don't doubt that Sauron would have been able to discern their true nature, if Cirdan could.

obloquy · 12-23-2004, 01:38 PM

Tolkien wrote somewhere that Glorfindel, after his death to Gothmog, while still recovering his spirit in Aman, became friends with Olorin.

Neithan · 12-23-2004, 02:14 PM

Quote:

There's always the possibility that those of the Noldor who returned to Beleriand knew of the Istari from the Undying Lands. I would imagine such figures would have been well known, or at least known of.

If you are saying that the Istari were already a group in Valinor and would be recognized as a group, the my response is that they were not a previously existing group, the group was formed for the purpose. If you are saying that each Istar would be recognized individually then I would say that that is why they did not use their real names, and I doubt that anyone would recognize them in their old man form if they did not want to be recognized.

Boromir88 · 12-23-2004, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Tolkien wrote somewhere that Glorfindel, after his death to Gothmog, while still recovering his spirit in Aman, became friends with Olorin.

I speculated whether Glorfindel knew too. He definately learned a lot from his death, and I find him to be one of the more reliable sources in LOTR. I find his statements in the Council of Elrond, although speculation, to be rather accurate.

12-23-2004, 01:01 PM	#3
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	There's always the possibility that those of the Noldor who returned to Beleriand knew of the Istari from the Undying Lands. I would imagine such figures would have been well known, or at least known of. There are hints that there were possibly more Istari, and characters such as Galadriel may have recognised their qualities in Gandalf and Saruman, even if she had never previously met them. Sauron himself may have recognised them as he was on something of an equal footing, hierarchically speaking. The Istari may have travelled in the disguise of elderly men, but I don't doubt that Sauron would have been able to discern their true nature, if Cirdan could. __________________ Gordon's alive!

12-23-2004, 11:14 AM	#2
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Feanor, nice point about the Witch-King, a good possibility. I don't think there is anything that would show Bombadil knows about it. Thanks for the quote neithan, it's definately helpful.

12-23-2004, 01:38 PM	#4
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	Tolkien wrote somewhere that Glorfindel, after his death to Gothmog, while still recovering his spirit in Aman, became friends with Olorin.