The Ainur and their physical forms

[Lalwendë]

Most odd. I was reading some Blake and the quote used by Neithan reminded me strongly of the images from his work

Then Sauron shifted shape, from wolf to serpent, and from monster to his own accustomed form; but he could not elude the grip of Huan without forsaking his body utterly...and said that he should be stripped of his raiment of flesh, and his ghost be sent quaking back to Morgoth; and she said: "There everlastingly thy naked self shall endure the torment of his scorn, pierced by his eyes, unless thou yield to me the mastery of thy tower."

This last sentence in particular is very biblical, symbolic and vivid. And as to the question of the chains used to bind Melkor - could these be metaphysical chains? Indeed, could they be "mind-forg'd manacles"? Blake used the image of metaphysical, moral and political chains throughout his work; The Marriage of Heaven and Hell includes this line which struck me in particular:

The Giants who formed this world into its sensual existence and now seem to live in it in chains, are in truth the causes of its life & the sources of all activity, but the chains are the cunning of weak and tame minds which have power to resist energy, according to the proverb, the weak in courage is strong in cunning

Chains do not have to be purely physical, they can take many forms, and the chaining of Melkor's spirit would have needed something very different to the metal chain we would normally think of; it is a very striking and effective image however.

[Boromir88]

A wonderful answer Lal, there's one part of the quote that also catches my attention...

the chains are the cunning of weak and tame minds which have power to resist energy

When we think of actual, physical chains, somebody literally "chained" up to the wall, yes chains do resist energy. The chained person can, rip, tear, thrash, wiggle, all they want, if the chains are strong enough it will "resist" that energy and hold that person.

Chains do not have to be purely physical, they can take many forms, and the chaining of Melkor's spirit would have needed something very different to the metal chain we would normally think of

So then whatever form of a chain that held Melkor, it was able to resist his power.

[Morsul the Dark]

Lastly, we now that the Balrogs had become incarnate in their forms and so coud not change their forms to escape from falling, but what about Sauron? In the Sil it says that he changed into a vampire and flew away after his match with Huan. So why didn't he change into a flying creature during the destruction of Numenore and escape?

I believe this has more to do with the fact, and I have no quotes ready so bear with me. Although Middle-Earth is a fantasy world Tolkien kept it very realistic. The Mariner(name escapes me) who listened to these tales at the cottage of lost play was a man and the elves were in my opinion reprenting classical cultures Romans and Greeks and such who made these myths to explain nature and even those stories based on real people were blown out of proportion I believe this was part of Tolkien's layering, if you will, of history into these books the story passed on orally grows each time until eventually its is hard to explain why something happens one way in a story and another way in actuality

[Neithan]

So then whatever form of a chain that held Melkor, it was able to resist his power.

Point taken, but what about about Sauron, if the Ainur's physical forms were no more important than clothing than why would he not be able to build a new body after forsaking that one? He was not, at that time, bound to his body.

[Neithan]

I was thinking, the chain Angainor was made by Aule and I don't think he would be able to make something that could contain Melkor's power. However, since Tulkas could overcome Melkor with physical strength, it is very easy to imagine that Tulkas could make a physical chain that could bind Melkor physically.

This is probably the most interesting and important point that I was trying to get at here. The difference between the physical strength and the power of the Ainur. As I see it, they are completely independent of one another, and of what form the Ainu chooses to take. Presumably then a Vala, say Tulkas for example, could take the form an ordinary hobbit and still have all of his legendary strength.


Edit: I meant that it would be easy to imagine that Aule could make such a chain, Tulkas obviously has no skill in that area

[Fingolfin II]

Neithan said:

I was thinking, the chain Angainor was made by Aule and I don't think he would be able to make something that could contain Melkor's power. However, since Tulkas could overcome Melkor with physical strength, it is very easy to imagine that Tulkas could make a physical chain that could bind Melkor physically.

I agree and disagree with this. Aule couldn't contain Melkor's power, but physical strength differs from this. I mean, Mandos wasn't the strongest or most powerful Vala, yet no one (in Ea) could escape from his halls, regardless of their innate strength or power.

Aule was the greatest smith in Arda, so out of all the Valar, he'd be best equipped to make a chain that could contain Morgoth physically. Just because Tulkas can beat him with physical strength in a wrestling match, it doesn't mean that he can make an inanimate chain to contain his strength, which would rival Aule's. Welcome to the Downs, by the way .

[A_Brandybuck]

I think, that the Ainur themselves have some restrictions, when they are embodied.
In the case of Sauron being hold by Huan, we see that Sauron could not change his shape in the way, that he can escape. He can change his body, but in exact the same location, so that Huan can hold him still. Not until his body was destroyed (or dead), the mere spirit can go, wherever he wants.
What then happens, we can see it in the Fall of Sauron in the War of the Last Alliance.
Sauron could be slayn, and he was slayn by Gil-galad and Elendil. His body was dead and his naked spirit escaped, so that Isildur could cut the Ring from his finger. The Ring is not a part of the spirit of Sauron.
Sauron needed thousands of years to reembody himself totally, without the Ring his power was diminished, that could be the reason, why he took so long. After the Fall of Numenor he needed not so long, the Ring was there in Barad-dur.
Another case, from which we can conclude some details is the case of his holding in the 'hands' of Huan. Sauron has a great fear losing his body and going naked to Melkor. I conclude herefrom, that Sauron could not reembody himself directly, because Luthien said, he shall endure the torments of his master everlastingly. 'Everlastingly' seems to me a little bit exaggerated, we know, that he could reembody himself at any time.
We can extract from all above, that in spite of the possibility of changing the shape, an embodied Maia could not leave the body, when he is hold by someone. What exactly happens, when a Maia leaves his body, I don't know, because there is no quote concerning this. He can change his shape, but he cannot escape through the mere changing.
When the body dies, the spirit can leave the body, but cannot reembody itself directly. Reembodying is apparently dependent how much power the spirit has.

Coming to the different shape a Maia (representive for Ainur) can have. Maia have a gender. I don't know a case, where an Ainu choose a body of the other gender. Apparently there is a restriction, that a Maia can embody himself only with shapes of his own gender. The gender is anchored in the spirit of the Maia and influenced apparently the physical form. An attribute. But surely there are other attributes, which are fixed in the spirit. Attributes, which have effects of the physical forms they can choose. I think, that the body of the Maia is mirroring his spirit. We see this in the changing of Sauron's shapes in the 'hands' of Huan.
The physical form of a Maia is consquently a vague image of the spirit.
But it is also possible, that the attributes change, so that a Maia can (must) take other shapes as earlier. We see this in Morgoth and Sauron. Both had a beautiful shape, but with doing continously evil deeds, they are shaped in dark form.
After the Downfall of Numenor, Sauron could not take a beautiful shape again, he lost his shape in the Sinking of Numenor. I interpret this passage in the following way: the Downfall of Numenor, for which Sauron is responsible, the measure of his evil deeds was so high, that 'his spirit' was so foul, that he could not take another form as a 'Dark Lord'.
Some may think, that he did very many deeds already earlier, why he lost the possibility of a beautiful shape so late. There are two possibilities:

#1 His body died, so that his new body cannot have a beautiful form. The new attributes can only be implemented after a maltreatment of the body. The thesis could be supported by the fact, that Melkor's hands are for forever black, after his hands were burned by the Silmaril. In both cases, the maltreatment is the bill for the evil deeds.

#2 The measure his very high. Melkor could live in Valinor in his beautiful shape, although he has many evil deeds behind him, including his most evil deed: the creation of the race of Orcs (supposed they came from Elves).

Maybe it is a combination of both.

I come to the Balrogs. Balrogs are Maiar, which came into the service of Melkor. They became demons of fire. Apparently they could not change their body, nor leave it. The one Balrog, of which we know, that he lives in the Third Age, has not changed his form after that really long time. I think that these Maiar are bound to the flesh. And there is the connection to something over what, we know more: the Istari.
It is (at least) for the Valar possible to bound a Maia to a body and to enjoin them the restrictions of the flesh. We know, that the power of the Istari was also diminshed, because they wanted only a passive supporting of the free peoples of Middle-earth against Sauron.
My theory is, that if it has been possible for the Valar to bound a spirit to the flesh, it would be also possible for Melkor to bound the Valaraukar to the flesh. But in this case the power of them wasn't diminshed, maybe increased through subcreation from Melkor.
Melkor used them as warriors. The slaying of a Balrog would be the escaping of the spirit from the body, but without chance to rebuild the body or getting again the power (only through the creator). I conclude this through a comment of Gandalf (I don't find it at the moment), that Saruman is nothing more like Sauron. A mere spirit in the wilderness.

Looking now to the chain, which Melkor enchained, I would say, that it is possible to forge a chain, which can hold the physical form of Melkor enchained. Huan get it with Sauron, why could not Aule forge a chain, which is mighty enough to hold Melkor. The chain must only resist the changing of a shape (that this is possible, we see in Huan) and resist the destroying through the power of Melkor (he lost much with subcreation). We know, that leaving the physical form is not possible, when the person is in a form enchained.