The Gift of Speech - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gurthang · 12-04-2004, 01:59 PM

It would make sense that whoever made the object would have put some of their own power into it. At least in the case of the Ring, and so maybe Gurthang, too. Maybe it depended on who made them or where they were made. The great hound, Huan, came from Valinor and was allowed to speak three times.

Morsul the Dark · 12-04-2004, 02:06 PM

well I think It is a matter of when Tolkien wrote his books. The Hobbit and the lost tales delve much more into fantasy than LOTR does when you think about LOTR besides eagles being huge and the fell creatures and the ring the book is basicly realistic while the hobbit is much less serious and more focused on fantasy dragons and d talking birds( yes I remember Gwaihir but Gandalf is a maiar therefore has the power to talk with natural beasts perhaps if gwaihir apporached the hobbits they wouldn't understand him.) so the first few ages are much more fantasy than LOTR. Also maybe the sword didn't talk the weilder just enjoyed his pipeweed a tad too much

burrahobbit · 12-05-2004, 01:35 PM

Most of the really outlandish stuff in The Hobbit comes from Blbo's fevered imagination. The things in the other books???

Kuruharan · 12-05-2004, 06:31 PM

It is kind of interesting to ask, "How did anyone know that Gurthang spoke? Nobody else was there at the time."

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-07-2004, 11:41 AM

Turin was a suicidal wreck. Bear that in mind.

Mithalwen · 12-08-2004, 12:42 PM

I think that is the truth of it, Eomer. I guess that these instances are a projection of the psyche of Turin and Sam.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-08-2004, 12:59 PM

Sam?

**The Saucepan Man** · 12-08-2004, 01:09 PM

Um, in a world where we have Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves, Trolls, Dragons and walking talking trees, is it really too far-fetched to believe in talking swords?

The Barrow-Wights were dead creatures inhabited by houseless spirits. And I believe that Tolkien, in one of the HoME volumes, talks of disembodied spirits seeking to gain control over the bodies of the living.

Is it not possible that Eol learned the craft of infusing inanimate objects with houseless spirits? Or perhaps such a spirit simply decided to house itself in a sword of its own accord. Given that a spirit can exist independently of a physical body, there is no reason why it should necessarily require an organic body.

As for the Ring, it contained part of Sauron's will.

Given that telepathy was used in Middle-earth, in Elvish Osanwe for example, I see no reason why possessed objects should not be able to 'speak' even without the physical apparatus to do so.

12-04-2004, 01:59 PM	#1
Gurthang Sword of Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oh, I'm around. Posts: 1,401	Perhaps it's origins. It would make sense that whoever made the object would have put some of their own power into it. At least in the case of the Ring, and so maybe Gurthang, too. Maybe it depended on who made them or where they were made. The great hound, Huan, came from Valinor and was allowed to speak three times. __________________ I'm on a Mission from God.

12-04-2004, 02:06 PM	#2
Morsul the Dark Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,448	well I think It is a matter of when Tolkien wrote his books. The Hobbit and the lost tales delve much more into fantasy than LOTR does when you think about LOTR besides eagles being huge and the fell creatures and the ring the book is basicly realistic while the hobbit is much less serious and more focused on fantasy dragons and d talking birds( yes I remember Gwaihir but Gandalf is a maiar therefore has the power to talk with natural beasts perhaps if gwaihir apporached the hobbits they wouldn't understand him.) so the first few ages are much more fantasy than LOTR. Also maybe the sword didn't talk the weilder just enjoyed his pipeweed a tad too much __________________ Morsul the Resurrected

12-05-2004, 01:35 PM	#3
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	Most of the really outlandish stuff in The Hobbit comes from Blbo's fevered imagination. The things in the other books??? __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

12-05-2004, 06:31 PM	#4
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,593	Curious, Dr. Watson... It is kind of interesting to ask, "How did anyone know that Gurthang spoke? Nobody else was there at the time." __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

12-07-2004, 11:41 AM	#5
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Turin was a suicidal wreck. Bear that in mind. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-08-2004, 12:42 PM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	I think that is the truth of it, Eomer. I guess that these instances are a projection of the psyche of Turin and Sam. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

12-08-2004, 12:59 PM	#7
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Sam? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-08-2004, 01:09 PM	#8
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Spirits in the material world Um, in a world where we have Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves, Trolls, Dragons and walking talking trees, is it really too far-fetched to believe in talking swords? The Barrow-Wights were dead creatures inhabited by houseless spirits. And I believe that Tolkien, in one of the HoME volumes, talks of disembodied spirits seeking to gain control over the bodies of the living. Is it not possible that Eol learned the craft of infusing inanimate objects with houseless spirits? Or perhaps such a spirit simply decided to house itself in a sword of its own accord. Given that a spirit can exist independently of a physical body, there is no reason why it should necessarily require an organic body. As for the Ring, it contained part of Sauron's will. Given that telepathy was used in Middle-earth, in Elvish Osanwe for example, I see no reason why possessed objects should not be able to 'speak' even without the physical apparatus to do so. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!