(Plot+Characters)*Voice^2=Literature?

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Lachwen

I, too, have found it most annoying to be told "This is how you write a story," then have points taken off if I diverge from the pet formula.

I suppose that, if the exercise was to demonstrate knowledge and application of the formula, then she was probably right to mark you down. Harsh though it may seem. It is fair to say, and I have found this throughout my academic and professional life, that work which may be of the highest quality is nevertheless inappropriate if it does not meet the purpose for which it was created.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

These archaic spellings give the impression that you are a haughty snob. Fix your spell-checker to change those automatically before I start taking points off.

Um, those aren't archaic spellings. They are in current and consistent use this side of the Atlantic. In other words, they are 'proper' English.

[Rimbaud]

Spelling is important. In my trans-Atlantic household, with two breeds of newspaper, the crosswords can get very confusing. My personal bugbear though with differentiation in spelling between English-speaking countries? Microsoft and the default to US English feature.

More to the point, learning a rule of language or grammar at school is admirable - breaking it later will be all the more satisfying when you can explain exactly why you deemed it appropriate. Don't abuse the poetic license, he's a fragile little chap

[Lalwendë]

Let me shake your hand! And also the auto-complete function. This almost provokes me to acts of violence and I seriously consider behaving like one of those machine-breakers from the industrial revolution.

Now for a little tale which might encourage some of the younger ‘Downers struggling through school – long as you don’t say “Oh, it’s that mad old lady again with her tales” . I once had a dreadful English teacher who thought a good lesson consisted of answering comprehension questions on the book we were reading. Obviously we all grew restive and our interest slipped and we stopped doing our homework. I was always what in the US might be called a ‘straight A student’ (or swot in this country) so I was dismayed to find I only had a C in my end of term report. I challenged it and my teacher told me I would fail my O levels because I failed to ‘toe the line’. I tried to toe the line after that, but I hated it. Luckily, my usual teacher came back from maternity leave, and when my O level results came through I had two As in English. I later got an A level and a degree in English, I’m even a qualified English teacher! What this tells you is that sometimes it is hard struggling with a poor teacher, or even with a teacher you simply have a personality clash with, but never give up, as that would be to admit defeat!

About getting work back covered in red pen and sarcastic comments – I get this at work. I think all managers here have teacher fantasies, and they simply cannot resist the temptation to make mincemeat out of your reports and briefings. At first it is a horrible thing to have to take, but eventually, you realise that their manager does it to them, and so on all the way up the hierarchy!

I just love the semi colon though, as anyone who reads my RPGs will know. It’s just, somehow…right to me. It allows a pause between thoughts. I recommend the book Eats Shoots & Leaves to anyone interested in punctuation; it sounds like it might be deadly dull, but its very wittily written!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Um, those aren't archaic spellings. They are in current and consistent use this side of the Atlantic. In other words, they are 'proper' English.

Me: *muttered* "If we were anywhere else in the world it'd be right."
Him: "We aren't, it's not, and fix your Microsoft Word default."

My teacher has all the patience in the world for creative writing (although he's not much a fantasy fan), but he's got a 10-point list that my classmates love to hate. If you misuse any word on the list, you automatically get 10 points docked from your grade. If he sees anything you did outside of class where you misuse a word, he docks 10 points from your most recent assignment. Examples of the words are 'there' versus 'they're' and 'their', 'to', 'two', and 'too', etcetera. He picks words that students commonly screw up and gets downright mean about it. It's funny though.

My latest English Class Drama was when I got back a 4-page paper with an angry "Stop over-writing. The assignment was ONE PAGE." I got a 95 on the paper anyhow, but I picked up the habit of using a lot of detailed imagery, and that takes up space. So my one-page weekly journal entries usually end up quite a lot longer.

Speaking of English class... perhaps I should turn around and pay attention.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

My teacher has all the patience in the world for creative writing (although he's not much a fantasy fan), but he's got a 10-point list that my classmates love to hate. If you misuse any word on the list, you automatically get 10 points docked from your grade. If he sees anything you did outside of class where you misuse a word, he docks 10 points from your most recent assignment. Examples of the words are 'there' versus 'they're' and 'their', 'to', 'two', and 'too', etcetera. He picks words that students commonly screw up and gets downright mean about it.

Good for him. I hope that improper use of an apostrophe is on the list too. When I see my students getting "its" and "it's" confused I go ballistic.

But to get this off Mars and back on topic. . .while I too find the anachronistic language of LotR (particularly of RotK) distracting and even stilted at points, I think that it has an important function. Tolkien wanted his story to be consistent, perhaps even evocative of his Christian faith, but he avoided all direct allegorical representations or allusions. Neither Aragorn nor Frodo are Christ-figures; Galadriel is not Mary; there is no direct representation of communion etc.

I think what Tolkien did instead was to use a language that is highly reminiscent -- in its "heightened" moments -- of the language that we find in the King James Bible or (more appropriate for Tolk) the Latin Vulgate. By having his characters speak at times in this rather artificed (but not necessarily artificial way) he is able to evoke the tone and 'feel' of Biblical narrative without having to constrain his story or shackle particular events to particular allusions.

For example, when the Witch-King casts down the gates of Minas Tirith and enters, there is that incredible passage:

Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.

And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.

There are a number of things here that are decidely biblical, in terms of the passage's style: the brief sentences, some of which repeat each other; sentences that begin with "and" as the action accrues and grows; alliteration ("wizardry or war, welcoming"; "death. . .dawn"; "dark. . .dimly"); even biblical kinds of imagery (a crowing cock, blowing horns, "shadows of death"). The ultimate effect of this is to make this moment evocative of the Bible without maknig a direct one-to-one reference: there is no story from the Bible that I can think of which mirrors the coming of the Rohirrim; but the passage sure sounds biblical!

[davem]

Originally Posted by Fordim

Good for him. I hope that improper use of an apostrophe is on the list too. When I see my students getting "its" and "it's" confused I go ballistic.

This kind of makes me glad I left High School at 16 & have never set foot in an educational establishment since - I suspect I'd have left a trail of exploded tutors in my wake

[Lalwendë]

There are a number of things here that are decidely biblical, in terms of the passage's style: the brief sentences, some of which repeat each other; sentences that begin with "and" as the action accrues and grows; alliteration ("wizardry or war, welcoming"; "death. . .dawn"; "dark. . .dimly"); even biblical kinds of imagery (a crowing cock, blowing horns, "shadows of death"). The ultimate effect of this is to make this moment evocative of the Bible without maknig a direct one-to-one reference: there is no story from the Bible that I can think of which mirrors the coming of the Rohirrim; but the passage sure sounds biblical!

This has left me feeling somewhat perturbed. When I write a speech I use brief sentences, sentences beginning with 'and', alliteration, repetition. Have I been taught to write words which are intended to sound 'biblical'? And then there is the mysterious 'rule of three' - Horns, Horns, Horns. It's not so far from Education, Education, Education is it? (Which I hasten to add is nowt to do with me).

I too don't like misused apostrophes and mock loudly when I see one in a Greengrocer's window, but then I remember the errors I make daily due to my non-existent typing skills and I check myself.

[Lachwen]

Fëanor: while I can kind of understand where your teacher is coming from, docking points for a word misused outside of his class is a bit much. I would complain to the principal or the head of the department at that point.

I think what Tolkien did instead was to use a language that is highly reminiscent -- in its "heightened" moments -- of the language that we find in the King James Bible or (more appropriate for Tolk) the Latin Vulgate.

I disagree. Tolkien's writing is reminiscent more of the Norse sagas (or a good translation of Beowulf) than the much more formal language of the King James Bible. Tolkien was, after all, writing his own saga, and pulled much of his linguistic inspiration from cultures that passed on most of their history in sagas and epic poems (Anglo-saxon, Finnish, etc.). Latin does not have much of an influence in Lord of the Rings because it is more closely related to Quenya than any of the other languages in Middle-earth; and Quenya does not appear very often in Lord of the Rings. Only four times in real quantity, in fact: Frodo's greeting of Gildor, Galadriel's farewell song in Lórien, Treebeard's musings on the Golden Wood, and Aragorn's little coronation speech. As was stated earlier, The Lord of the Rings was supposed to be a transcription of the Red Book, which was written by Hobbits; they would not have used highly formal language because they were really quite unfamiliar with it (Tolkien addresses this in Appendix F, Section I, Of Hobbits).