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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles)
Posts: 1,548
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Both above are good points on Theoden's charge. As to Eomer's
movie charge I agree. I assume the rather absurd steep angle was PJ's penchant for dramatic exaggeration, but you could also argue that the orcs cracked psychologically, as could well happen at the end of protracted combat when unexpected new enemies appear. About the extent and effect of Theoden's charge, this occured to me before the movies or the publishing of the Atlas of Middle-earth. Of course Tolkien meant for it to be a desperate charge, but one reason it was desperate was the defenders nonknowledge of imminent relief. In this sense you can postulate a psychological effect on Saruman's army akin to the movie Eomer's charge, that is, when the book King sweeps the orcs and crams them past the Great Dike. Certainly Saruman's army still had numbers, but you can at least suggest the possibility of their panicking and, without the ents and huorns blocking them, retreating back across the Isen. History is replete with examples of superior numbers pschologically cracking: Quote:
even if Theoden's forces managed a costly and hard-fought tactical victory, then without the ents destroying Isengard Rohan would have found it necessary to detach forces to guard it, hence leading to a later and weaker relief force to MT, with obviously icky consequences for the good guys. Hey, just a little "counterfactual" history surmising. ![]() Oh, and as for the numbers postulated in "The Atlas of Middle-earth", the raw numbers of c. 1,800 survivors at Helm's Deep seem tenable, although you could argue for perhaps 1,400-1,600 effective fighters by sunrise, and you can assume most of the horses were fairly protected before the charge, but getting at least 500 + organized to charge quickly during a siege does seem a major challenge, but then it is the Realm of the Horselords.
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Aure Entuluva! Last edited by Tuor of Gondolin; 12-01-2004 at 08:05 AM. |
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