The Ring and the other races

[obloquy]

No, it was possible to overcome The One Ring and become its master. Doing this, however, would defeat Sauron just as effectively as destroying the Ring. The only question is whether the Ring, in this scenario, would maintain any of its power (since it stems from Sauron's own spirit) or if it would be rendered useless. I believe Tolkien speculates at one point that if Gandalf had mastered the Ring and overthrown Sauron in this manner, the end would still be a corruption of his power and intentions, but I'm not entirely sure that this should be considered anything more than speculation, albeit weighty. Were Tolkien able to discuss it, I would ask him if it was inconceivable for a power like Gandalf to thoroughly enslave the remnant of Sauron's power anchored in the Ring to his own righteous will. If so, wouldn't we then have to ask if Sauron's created nature was evil, rather than a free moral agent, since his power cannot be harnessed for good?

[Gurthang]

I remember a discussion(I'll see if I can find it) that concluded that even if one could master the Ring, it would still end up on top. The will of the ring can only be destroyed by destroying the ring. Otherwise it would never stop pushing against its bearer's will. Even if the bearer was not completely consumed by the ring, as Gollum was, it would still have a strong influence, as in Bilbo's case. So as time goes on, the ring would have a stronger and stronger influence as the bearer's will becomes weaker. Finally the bearer's will would be mostly obedient to the ring.

[the phantom]

How would a dragon put on a ring, anyway?

[obloquy]

I doubt that the discussion concluded that, since that is just one of the possibilities we might conjecture.

[Boromir88]

How would a dragon put on a ring, anyway?

I wonder if a Dragon would eat the Ring, and in that way work it's magic.

[the phantom]

We should start a thread entitled "What if a dragon ate The Ring?"

I'm sure we could spend hours going over Tolkien's many essays on the subject.

But such a serious title would probably discourage newbies from joining in.

[obloquy]

But such a serious title would probably discourage newbies from joining in.

Hahahaha!!!! I'll bet!!!

[Legolas]

I believe Tolkien speculates at one point that if Gandalf had mastered the Ring and overthrown Sauron in this manner, the end would still be a corruption of his power and intentions,

This was discussed in Letter No. 246:

Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him – being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.

Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great).

[The draft ends here. In the margin Tolkien wrote: 'Thus while Sauron multiplied [illegible word] evil, he left "good" clearly distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil.']