Elves becoming rustic folk - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

HerenIstarion · 11-18-2004, 06:49 AM

This being burra's first post since April! (Modern Elvish)

Welcome back, nice to see you around again

To give you a slight resemblance of being on topic:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Galadriel created Lothlorien through the power of her ring

Being a pedant I am, I'd rather that you've chosen word 'maintained' or similar instead of 'created'. Esle being true, of course

Mithalwen · 11-19-2004, 09:34 AM

I don' think that is quite fair HI: Lothlorien as it exists at the time of LOTR could be said to be Galadriel's creation. There may have been woods before but Lothlorien is not any old woods. The mallorns which define Lorien physically are there as a result of her power ("I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold and leaves of gold there grew" [Music and Magic in ME Anyone :P]), she is so integral to the place that it is deserted and desolate by the time of Arwen's death, little more than a century after her departure. I think it is worth remembering that Lothlorien (Dream flower) is not the original name. The Lorien we see is the flower or product of Galadriel's imagination. Without her, it is not the same place.

HerenIstarion · 11-19-2004, 10:16 AM

touché. sub-created, than

Elianna · 11-19-2004, 11:32 PM

Saw this poem and thought of this thread. I'll skip the first stanza for space and copyright reasons.

Heritage
By James Still

…I cannot leave. I cannot go away.

Being of these hills, being one with the fox
Stealing into the shadows, one with the new-born foal,
The lumbering ox drawing green beech logs to mill,
One with the destined feet of man climbing and descending
And one with death rising to bloom again, I cannot go.
Being of these hills, I cannot pass beyond. (sic italized)

This can be applied to the elves in a way. Because the elves had been so close to nature while living in Middle-earth, they became too attached to leave. Then because they could not leave, they became even closer to nature (oh the victious cycle!), and therefore became a "rustic folk."

burrahobbit · 11-21-2004, 04:16 PM

I fail to see how a poem by Joe Random Fella applies to the conception of Tolkien's Elves, or how living in Aman makes one any less close to nature.

Alchisiel · 11-21-2004, 04:33 PM

Well then ask why the poem is relevant, don't just dismiss someone's post as useless.

So Elianna, why do you think this poem is relevant to the topic we're discussing?

Boromir88 · 11-21-2004, 04:41 PM

Elianna,

Quote:

This can be applied to the elves in a way. Because the elves had been so close to nature while living in Middle-earth, they became too attached to leave. Then because they could not leave, they became even closer to nature (oh the victious cycle!), and therefore became a "rustic folk."

I feel as if that is a rather factual observation. Here is a quote from Lothlorien.

Quote:

"Some there are among us who sing that the Shadow will draw back, and peace shall come again. Yet I do not believe that the world about us will ever again be as it was of old, or the light of the Sun as it was aforetime. For the Elves, I fear, it will prove at best a truce, in which they pass to the Sea unhindered and leave the Middle-earth for ever. Alas for Lothlorien that I love! It would be a poor life in a land where no mallorn grew. But if there are mallorn-trees beyond the Great Sea, none have reported it."

First off, silly Haldir, in believing that living in Valinor would be a poor life. I say smack him! Anyway, I think this just goes to show Haldir has fallen in love so much with them "mallorn trees," that he actually speaks badly of Valinor, saying "it would be a poor life to live." Again, silly Haldir.

Elianna · 11-21-2004, 06:25 PM

Burrahobbit:

I never said living in Aman would make one less close to nature. The Elves became closer to the nature of Middle-earth, and did not wish to leave it. I suppose the relavance of my post was to provide a reasoning on why the Elves would choose to stay and dwindle from their former glory.

11-19-2004, 09:34 AM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I don' think that is quite fair HI: Lothlorien as it exists at the time of LOTR could be said to be Galadriel's creation. There may have been woods before but Lothlorien is not any old woods. The mallorns which define Lorien physically are there as a result of her power ("I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold and leaves of gold there grew" [Music and Magic in ME Anyone :P]), she is so integral to the place that it is deserted and desolate by the time of Arwen's death, little more than a century after her departure. I think it is worth remembering that Lothlorien (Dream flower) is not the original name. The Lorien we see is the flower or product of Galadriel's imagination. Without her, it is not the same place. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

11-19-2004, 10:16 AM	#3
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	touché. sub-created, than __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

11-19-2004, 11:32 PM	#4
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Saw this poem and thought of this thread. I'll skip the first stanza for space and copyright reasons. Heritage By James Still …I cannot leave. I cannot go away. Being of these hills, being one with the fox Stealing into the shadows, one with the new-born foal, The lumbering ox drawing green beech logs to mill, One with the destined feet of man climbing and descending And one with death rising to bloom again, I cannot go. Being of these hills, I cannot pass beyond. (sic italized) This can be applied to the elves in a way. Because the elves had been so close to nature while living in Middle-earth, they became too attached to leave. Then because they could not leave, they became even closer to nature (oh the victious cycle!), and therefore became a "rustic folk." __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

11-21-2004, 04:16 PM	#5
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	I fail to see how a poem by Joe Random Fella applies to the conception of Tolkien's Elves, or how living in Aman makes one any less close to nature. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

11-21-2004, 04:33 PM	#6
Alchisiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: At The Golden Perch enjoying the best pint in the East Farthing! Posts: 68	Well then ask why the poem is relevant, don't just dismiss someone's post as useless. So Elianna, why do you think this poem is relevant to the topic we're discussing? __________________ YOU shall not pass!! Even the smallest person can change the course of the future...

11-21-2004, 06:25 PM	#8
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Burrahobbit: I never said living in Aman would make one less close to nature. The Elves became closer to the nature of Middle-earth, and did not wish to leave it. I suppose the relavance of my post was to provide a reasoning on why the Elves would choose to stay and dwindle from their former glory. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.