LOTR Astrology Project (Introduction)

[Encaitare]

Hmm... Scorpio as a moon sign? Perchance.

'How deep is your love?' With the Moon in Scorpio, depth, passion and intensity imbue your relationships. You are able to inspire others as you will not shirk in the face of unpleasant situations and can speak up for the underdog. You know no fear, and will not be put off by society's views when it comes to choosing who is in your life. But you keep many emotions under wraps, and others can be unaware of your true feelings until you let rip at the last straw. Time alone is important for you to process your feelings and come to terms with some of the injustices of the world. You are no lightweight ,superficial, social animal but you have a strong moral conscience. When tragedy hits, you are a survivor and will return scarred but ready to face life again. Your strong intuition and psychic abilities allow you to see below the surface. (Moon Signs in the Zodiac)

The last bit, "scarred but ready to face life again" certainly reminds me of Boromir's corruption and redemption. I feel that Boromir certainly must have some strong aspects of Scorpio at work within him; whether it's his sun sign or moon sign is open to interpretation.

Will be sure to research Pisces over the next couple of days.

[THE Ka]

Good source. I would also recommend Heaven Knows What also as a good sun/moon sign source (That's where i found out that sun sign: scorpio, moon sign: Pisces is suppositely the biggest rebel known to humankind... and some monkeys too )

Anyway, before i rant away this thread, i will give out homework (don't worry. i have to do it too! Plus, i don't expect a deadline just yet. When i have the essay done, then you can show what your made of, or the facinating-mind-blowing informatin that you've discovered). Homework is: Read and search for anything about Pisces. This next essay is going to be as two-sided and topsy turvy as Pisces themselves when it comes time for analysis. Remember, Pisces are mutuable signs. They change, and transform whenever they feel like it.

Also, we can still discuss Boromir's Sign Indecision Saga afterwards... i have no doubt that it going to haunt this thread. Also, whenever you feel like it (i'm not ordering you to, i don't feel like Sauron today ) invite some members who you think would be interested in this project. i don't feel i started this post very welcomely... So, you can blame me.

~Guru half-jack ka~

[THE Ka]

This one is liable to be interesting. Along with Bilbo and Frodo, Aragorn is the only person in LOTR who we are provided with a full birth date. Aragorn, by Tolkien's statement was born on March 1. So, this would make him a Pisces. There are many traits that Aragorn expresses well enough for us to clearly see that he is indeed, a Pisces without Tolkien's reference even though it will prove most helpful.

Part II

Aragorn was born under the sign of Pisces the compassionate, on March 1. The sun is in Pisces from February 21st to March 21st. One convincing keyfact, even though it is slight, is that Pisces rules the feet in the physical body. Aragorn, among his many aliases is called "Wingfoot" given to him by Eomer. Pisces is clearing up all the other odds and ends left over from the other signs. This is why sometimes Pisces is called "the dustpan of the zodiac". Also along with this is why Pisces seem so remote from the other signs. In Pisces, one fish swims downstream representing personality, while another swims upstream representing the soul. either the personalty captures the soul and is made servant, or likewise with the soul. This brings much suffering to Pisces in their life goals and choices. Questions like, "What is the meaning of life?" really do effect them on a daily basist. The spiritual motto for Pisces is "Serve or Suffer". Pisces are born with this choice, and in aragorn's case very important. Aragorn is faced much with the same choices of that of a Pisces individual. one of the most important choices for him to make is that of his inheritance. When Pisces first become aware of these choices, it is not un-common for them to become recluses. They see this as an tempary "escape" from life. The world is not their habitat, and the need to escape from it is very great. With this in mind, we can see why Aragorn was avoiding his inheritance, by becoming a ranger. Pisceans need to be alone and do need to retreat from contact with the world in order to retain an equalibrium. pisces are sometimes moody and introspective and hard to understand. They actually enjoy the idea of being "alien". Much to Frodo's annoyance this was true with Aragorn. Even though it may seem as if Aragorn was trying to avoid his destiny, he was eventually forced into it. Everything for renewal must go back to it's source. When Pisceans actually do step up to the plate (though through much perswasion and emotion), and connect with their inner source of their Being, they are capable of great achievements. When they do not though, the consiquences are greater than for any other sign. Luckly for Aragorn, this did not happen.

Pisceans suffer from an inferiority complex and a sense of unworthiness. They never feel that they do enough to meet their life goals or choices , so they often overwork. Eventually putting stress and strain on the physical body. After the death of Both Gandalf and Boromir, Aragorn seems to plunge into this "workalcholic escapism". Also, the fact that Gandalf left the leading role up to him, caused him to try his best over and over again. But, no one is perfect or closely perfect forever. This becomes apparent to Aragorn after Boromir and Frodo's conflict. Were aragorn tries his hardest to keep the company together, but fails.
"We shall all be scattered and lost, ' groaned aragorn. 'Boromir! i do not know what part you have played in this mischief, but help me now!"(lord of the Rings, p.395)
and yet again, poor Aragorn is lost in everyone's confusion...
"Wait a moment!' cried Aragorn. 'We must divide up into pairs, and arrange! -- here, hold on! Wait!' " (Lord of the Rings, p.395)

Now, to some, it would seem that Aragorn would feel like biting Boromir's head off at this moment but, under that anger is the divine rule of Pisces. Compassion. In the end, Aragorn know's of Boromir's struggles and how hard he tried to redeem himself. That is why at Boromir's end, we see Aragorn reach such a level of compassion, that it seems almost alien.

Another very interesting aspect of Pisces is that they have a deeply hidden inner pride. Assail it at your peril. Aragorn shows this on his own (at the council it is others who glorify him. much to his annoyance and shame.) when passing Argonath. Frodo notices the almost unexistant pride of aragorn come forth, and how even Boromir had shut up about this.

But, in the end, there is one rule that aragorn eventually came forth to. The only true freedom for Pisces comes through spiritual orientation. When they are true to their real nature, Pisceans have a high and holy destiny and are the true savoius and servants of mankind. They have a great sense of compassion and sacrifice themselves in utter devotion for the redemption of the world. Thus coins the quote, "There is no king who has not had a slave among his ancestors, and no slave who has not had a king among his." (Helen Keller, Story of My Life)

Another trend we see among Aragorn is a love of music and a luck of being a gifted healer. "Pisceans have a deep love of music and are fine musicians themselves when they pursue music as a life work. They make wonderful doctors and in any area of the medical fiels do excellent work." (Astrology, a Cosmic Science. Isabel M. Hikey. p.28) In the houses of healing, he brings Faramir back to a state of conciousness. "King! Did you hear that? What did I say? The hands of a healer, I said." (Lord of the Rings, p.848 that really talkative nurse, Ioreth.)

i hope this intigues you to explore or express your knowledge about this essay. I am hoping to see alot of editing, I feel that this essay is unfinished at the time being.

Go ahead! Feel free to express questions, points, and concern.

~Ka~

[The Barrow-Wight]

I don't know anything about astrology, but I know a bit about the calendars used by Hobbits and how they relate to our current calendar. When Tolkien said 1 March, he meant the first day of the third month of the Hobbit calendar (Rethe), which coincides with the 22nd of February on our modern Gregorian calendar. This still places him within the bounds of our current understanding of Pisces (19 Feb - 20 Mar), but only by a few days.

Likewise, Frodo and Bilbo shared the birthday of 22 Sep (22nd day of the 9th month), which corresponds to 14 Sep on our calendar. This would put the two hobbits firmly within the sign of Virgo (8/23 - 9/22) instead of right on the last day of being a Libra.

My question is, "Do birthdates that fall near the border of two signs share some characteristics of both signs (in Aragorn's case, mostly Pisces but a bit of Aquarius), or do the dates of a sign strictly confine a person to that sign?"

[Encaitare]

Originally Posted by BW

My question is, "Do birthdates that fall near the border of two signs share some characteristics of both signs (in Aragorn's case, mostly Pisces but a bit of Aquarius), or do the dates of a sign strictly confine a person to that sign?"

I did a little quick research on cusps (the "line" of sorts which "divides" the signs) and found this:

In or Out

The Sun can only be in one Sign or another, not in two at once. The center point is considered to be such a small point, that it would cross from one Sign to another in less than a minute; and thus will go from 29 degrees and 59 minutes of one Sign, to 0 degrees and 0 minutes of the next Sign, in a very short time (Signs have 30 degrees, and a minute is 1/60th of a degree). The position of the Sun or any planet is never described as being in two Signs at once - it is in one Sign or the other, even if it is barely into the next Sign, or almost leaving the previous Sign. The only time it would be "on the fence", so to speak, is if its center point were exactly at the Cusp line, which is a rather rare occurance, since the center point and the Cusp line are infinitely small. --Astronomyzine.com

Since the Sun almost every time would be in one sign or the other at the precise time of birth -- it would be incredibly rare for it to be exactly on the cusp -- almost every time you would just have the traits of the one sign. The site I quoted above says that some astrologers believe if the rare circumstance of the Sun being exactly on the cusp were to occur, then traits of both signs could possibly be demonstrated. But since even with the conversion to the Shire calendar, Aragorn's birthdate was safely within the boundaries of Pisces, he would be considered as such and not as an Aquarius.

Thanks for providing the converted date of Frodo and Bilbo's birthday -- that certainly changes a few things!

Now, as for Aragorn the Pisces:

Some positive Piscean traits are that they are humble, compassionate, understanding, kind, and intuitive. Aragorn certainly demonstrates these traits. But what's interesting is that Pisceses are considered to be weak-willed and confused. While Aragorn has his moments of self-doubt, he does not seem to be weak of will -- let's face it; who doesn't have such moments?

I'm going to have to disagree with you on another point, Ka, though it's a minor one this time. Aragorn doesn't seem to have the sterotypical Piscean inferiority complex, at least not in the book. He is a humble man, and he doesn't try and place himself above others, but it seems to me that he knows he's good, in his own quiet sort of way. He has faith in himself most of the time, except as seen a few times, such as when he has to take over for Gandalf, and when things just don't seem to be going his way on Amon Hen ("Alas! An ill fate is on me this day, and all that I do goes amiss). Otherwise he's pretty confident.

Pisceans can be considered the "poets of the zodiac" (KISS Astrology, by Julia and Derek Parker), and Aragorn does show his hand at verse in the House of Elrond. The book just cited advises Pisceans to "pull yourself together, recognize your own worth, face things as they really are, and learn to cope." This ties in to the point I just made above -- once Aragorn gets past his inital doubt, he is able to become a strong leader.

Here's an interesting fact I found: the color associated with Pisces is a "soft sea-green" (KISS Astrology). This ties in to the green beryl Aragorn finds on the bridge, and the "great stone of a clear green, set in a silver brooch that was wrought in the likeness of an eagle with outstretched wings" (LotR, Book II, Farewell to Lorien, which Galadriel gives to him. Another connection is that the color is a sea-green, relating to Aragorn's Numenorean roots.

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

I did a little quick research on cusps (the "line" of sorts which "divides" the signs) and found this:



Since the Sun almost every time would be in one sign or the other at the precise time of birth -- it would be incredibly rare for it to be exactly on the cusp -- almost every time you would just have the traits of the one sign. The site I quoted above says that some astrologers believe if the rare circumstance of the Sun being exactly on the cusp were to occur, then traits of both signs could possibly be demonstrated. But since even with the conversion to the Shire calendar, Aragorn's birthdate was safely within the boundaries of Pisces, he would be considered as such and not as an Aquarius.

Thanks for providing the converted date of Frodo and Bilbo's birthday -- that certainly changes a few things!

Now, as for Aragorn the Pisces:

Some positive Piscean traits are that they are humble, compassionate, understanding, kind, and intuitive. Aragorn certainly demonstrates these traits. But what's interesting is that Pisceses are considered to be weak-willed and confused. While Aragorn has his moments of self-doubt, he does not seem to be weak of will -- let's face it; who doesn't have such moments?

I'm going to have to disagree with you on another point, Ka, though it's a minor one this time. Aragorn doesn't seem to have the sterotypical Piscean inferiority complex, at least not in the book. He is a humble man, and he doesn't try and place himself above others, but it seems to me that he knows he's good, in his own quiet sort of way. He has faith in himself most of the time, except as seen a few times, such as when he has to take over for Gandalf, and when things just don't seem to be going his way on Amon Hen ("Alas! An ill fate is on me this day, and all that I do goes amiss). Otherwise he's pretty confident.

Pisceans can be considered the "poets of the zodiac" (KISS Astrology, by Julia and Derek Parker), and Aragorn does show his hand at verse in the House of Elrond. The book just cited advises Pisceans to "pull yourself together, recognize your own worth, face things as they really are, and learn to cope." This ties in to the point I just made above -- once Aragorn gets past his inital doubt, he is able to become a strong leader.

Here's an interesting fact I found: the color associated with Pisces is a "soft sea-green" (KISS Astrology). This ties in to the green beryl Aragorn finds on the bridge, and the "great stone of a clear green, set in a silver brooch that was wrought in the likeness of an eagle with outstretched wings" (LotR, Book II, Farewell to Lorien, which Galadriel gives to him. Another connection is that the color is a sea-green, relating to Aragorn's Numenorean roots.

Good observation on the colour schemes. i know i wouldn't have the eye to find it. Another good point on the inferiority complex. Aragorn might not feel that worthless, but he does have moments of doubt. Like you said, who wouldn't in positions like his?
feel free to discuss more on this sign... not all is set in stone .yet.

~Ka~

[Elennar Starfire]

I have two little questions- How do you determine moon signs? And rising signs?

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by The Barrow-Wight

I don't know anything about astrology, but I know a bit about the calendars used by Hobbits and how they relate to our current calendar. When Tolkien said 1 March, he meant the first day of the third month of the Hobbit calendar (Rethe), which coincides with the 22nd of February on our modern Gregorian calendar. This still places him within the bounds of our current understanding of Pisces (19 Feb - 20 Mar), but only by a few days.

Likewise, Frodo and Bilbo shared the birthday of 22 Sep (22nd day of the 9th month), which corresponds to 14 Sep on our calendar. This would put the two hobbits firmly within the sign of Virgo (8/23 - 9/22) instead of right on the last day of being a Libra.

My question is, "Do birthdates that fall near the border of two signs share some characteristics of both signs (in Aragorn's case, mostly Pisces but a bit of Aquarius), or do the dates of a sign strictly confine a person to that sign?"

Don't worry, this is a common question of both seasoned astrologers and beginners alike. Good point with Frodo and Bilbo... But, i really don't think they are the Virgo type. They seem more Librean. It's characteristics like these that are very useful for people in Bilbo and Frodo's position.

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What makes a Libra and Virgo. How they are different.
Many might think that signs that are close together relate to each other mildly... unfortunately, this is not always true with some signs...

Virgo: More of a Perfectionist (of both ideas and people and themselves)
Disappointment, however, can harden you into a cynic and a skeptic. Virgo consequently becomes quite critical with self as well as circumstances, due to the effect of such disappointments on a sensitive and discriminating nature. (Astrologycom)

It is not unheard of for you to use guilt as a weapon. Helping others to improve is one thing, my dears, but pushing them toward goals of perfection they cannot hope to accomplish is quite destructive, as well as impossible. (Astrologycom)

The planet Mercury, governing our intellect and communicative faculties, rules Virgo, where tradition also places the house of its exaltation, so Virgins have a truly intellectual, critical and analytical approach to life. Communication is important and you love books, magazines, and writing. (Astrologycom)

Libra: Has a habit of indecision...
Emotional, physical, and psychological pleasure comes to you from beauty in all its forms. Books, music, flowers, and perfume are typical delights. If your environment is less than pleasing, you can become unhappy without even realizing that your surroundings may be responsible for your despondency. (Astrologycom)

Librans are also subject to interminable hovering between alternatives, or inability to make firm decisions, especially under pressure, when you can be pushed by others into taking steps you later regret. (Astrologycom)

Contrast: Well, as you can see from some of the examples there are differences between signs that are close. The last note about Libra seems to point a finger at Frodo. If you remember, Boromir was quite persasive in getting Frodo to go with him, luckly Frodo weighed his advantages and disadvantages. Also, i really do not see Frodo or Bilbo using guilt as a 'weapon', they tend to use more along the ideas of words or quotes said by that someone...This also can be distinguished by what elemental sign they are. Libra(Air) = intellect and ideas, Virgo(Earth) = material things or concern and security. But, the idea of merging these two signs sounds very close, if we can make a call. But, then which one are they? or are there diferences? (ex. one might be Sun sign: Virgo, Moon sign: Libra, and the other the opposite?)

This will be left up to debate later on, after we have discussed the Pisces essay.

~Ka~

For the BW:
Also, just for reference questions, the info. I found on Aragorn's birthdate came from Appendix B. I wanted to ask the Barrow Wight if this is in Shire reconing or Steward's reconing? And would if it was in Steward's reconing would it be different? I know that Steward's reconing has close to about 365 days, which in times of peace, the Stewards tried to perfect. Until Mordor interupted their studies...