'Top' Reputation Givers

[Boromir88]

I will admit, that I tend to give reputation to the people who have already given me reputation, or atleast I'm more lenient to the people who have already given me reputation . Oh of course it's still a good post, yes, of course lol.

I don't think any of the long standing members, or the more frequent posters (Estelyn, Fordhim, Mith, SpM...etc) will have any problems with the reputation, since I all trust you can control yourselves lol. But, I think maybe some of as Mithalwen put it the "fangurls" might go reputation crazy. And also as Mithalwen pointed out, I know I leave my name (and from the reputations I got most people have left their name) so it's fairly easy to tell.

[mark12_30]

The 'fangirl' list might be amusing, but I don't think it's a big risk here. You do have to hit nine others before you can repeat. Anybody consistently swooning over the same ten people? (And do you leave your name?)

Of course, nobody has joined with the name RoggieOfMorgoth lately; no telling what might happen. Especially with the right eyeliner.

[HerenIstarion]

Am I? um... who would have thought

But my giving rate is on down-curve right now - a bit busy, I am, no posts, I read, so you'll have the chance to catch on me

cheers

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

The 'fangirl' list might be amusing, but I don't think it's a big risk here. You do have to hit nine others before you can repeat. Anybody consistently swooning over the same ten people? (And do you leave your name?)

.

I don't keep a record of who I rep but quite a lot of time I get told to spread it around... so while I don't swoon, it does seem that if I find a person's posting enlightening / amusing once, I am likely to find other of their posts enlightening/ amusing. I also tend to spend most of my time in the same areas - so that is why I think this can be seen very positively as a reminder to look further afield. Particularly since I have benefitted so much from the encouragement of longer established downers, I am trying to make the effort to encourage good new posting when I come across it. This is a very serious forum at it's highest level and even though I have been reading Tolkien on and off for over 20 years, it was quite daunting starting to post here; receiving a few points was a real confidence boost (sorry Fordim ).

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

(sorry Fordim ).

Erm. . .for what?

[Mithalwen]

Use of the word boost ( other than in the sense of intending to permanently deprive someone of something )

[Bêthberry]

Mithalwen posted:

I don't keep a record of who I rep but quite a lot of time I get told to spread it around... so while I don't swoon, it does seem that if I find a person's posting enlightening / amusing once, I am likely to find other of their posts enlightening/ amusing. I also tend to spend most of my time in the same areas - so that is why I think this can be seen very positively as a reminder to look further afield.

Well, I'm not swooning but I do want to rep a post of Esty's and I had recently given her a rep. I have been looking over old threads for posts to rep so I can again rep her but each time I try I still get the message to 'spread it around more'. I guess I should start counting the reps I give out.

I know that I really value the reps I receive as often I think I have a slightly off-base way of looking at Tolkien and so it is good to know that not everyone thinks I'm off the wall. Well, not my friends at least.

[Mithalwen]

I would second that.. often a post will cause a new (to me) thought to occur and I post it without taking it away for careful examination first. So if I find a rep or a PM the next day it shows I haven't merely "gone off on one". And it isn't the points ... the comments of those who have no points to give are valued.

[The Only Real Estel]

Well, I'm not swooning but I do want to rep a post of Esty's and I had recently given her a rep. I have been looking over old threads for posts to rep so I can again rep her but each time I try I still get the message to 'spread it around more'

Yeah, that has happened to me a few times. A little annoying at times that you have to search for posts to rate just to be able to rate a post you really liked, but not to bad. Besides, I understand the reasoning behind it-this way two school buds can't plot to vault eachother past Fordim & Davem.

[Boromir88]

A little annoying at times that you have to search for posts to rate just to be able to rate a post you really liked, but not to bad.

Tis very true.

This is a very serious forum at it's highest level and even though I have been reading Tolkien on and off for over 20 years, it was quite daunting starting to post here; receiving a few points was a real confidence boost (sorry Fordim ).

Quite true, Mith, when I was bored one day so I just went looking for my very first posts I made on this forum, and now I look at what I'm posting today, wow. Same with, that I've been into Tolkien for some 20 years now, and I only started to reread them just now, since it's becoming more popular. I didn't have the pleasure of seeing my first points lol, I didn't discover I had a User CP until 6, or even less months ago, lol.

[HerenIstarion]

Well, you've read the title and are warned. On with the matter than:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I just went looking for my very first posts I made on this forum

Um, that'd be an advice: in case in some distant or near future, when you're well past your 500th post, you feel the urge to see your first post again, make bookmarks of them now, as the software we are now employing on the fora does not allow to search for more than recent 500 of any user's posts.

On topic:

alas, nothing to add. Or, no, wait! Yeah, um... ahem... fangirls, you say? Where would one, um... look, er, for them? I'm sure you don't think I need any, that for my friend's sake I'm asking, um, and he's, it should be added, he's...er... curios out of, um... scientific interest, yes, nothing more, definitely...

Or was that off-topic as well?

[mark12_30]

H-I-- change your screen name to Roggie of Morgoth. And wear lots and lots of flame-proof eyeliner.

"Oooo, he's so hot."

Come on, who could resist a hottie like that?

Do be careful, however, because there are those at The Downs who resist balrog-swooning on principle. I believe Bethberry tops the list. Do not incur her wrath, or she will pursue you from the depths of Moria to the peak of Zirak Zigil til she smites your ruin on the mountainside.

[HerenIstarion]

H-I-- change your screen name to Roggie of Morgoth. And wear lots and lots of flame-proof eyeliner.

Surely, you mean my friend, that with high level of scientific curiosity should do that

thanks for the advice, though, I'll let him know right away!

[Roggie of Morgoth]

I'm come, and I have tons of... er, wossname? Ah, yes, flame-proof eyeliner on, everywhere, even my fingernails are painted black!

So, show me the species I'm scientifically interested in!

Um, do you mind partying in a lab?


PS by the master of puppets behind Roggie

Every person in sight should rep this here post negative for being off-topic, off-Tolkien and generally silly. Or maybe send Roggie warning PMs, which he would not read, as I'd be too lazy to log off and re-log on once so often

Roggie Of Morgoth wan't be posting again anyways. H-I will take care of that

[Bêthberry]

Helen posted:
Do be careful, however, because there are those at The Downs who resist balrog-swooning on principle. I believe Bethberry tops the list. Do not incur her wrath, or she will pursue you from the depths of Moria to the peak of Zirak Zigil til she smites your ruin on the mountainside.

Now, now, now. Helen. I see you have contributed to the delinquency of someone as we now have a Roggie of Morgoth registered and online.

But you really must qualify your comments about my anti-swoon crusade. If the swooning is done with wit and cleverness and intelligence--in short, if it is done with the highest standards of Truth and Good Art--why, I don't see that it should lead us to the spiralling depths of darkness where we would be overrun with fangirls. It might even hold out some hopefulness that some fangirls might find some level on the path to Transcendence, depending on how well those (eye)lines are drawn.

EDIT (See, HI, I make my reason clear): The culprit has beaten me to the post. "But at my back, I always hear, the wings of HerenIstarion hurrying near." Apologies to Turambar and Rimbaud.

And those wings had best be repping again soon or Helen will become our top reputation giver.

[Mithalwen]

*cue a legolas moment* "Aieeeeee a balrog is come...a balrog of Morgoth. scourge of our people!!!!"


I think Roggie should visit regularly ... and definitely get a sig :

[mark12_30]

Nay, my good and dear Mithalwen, the cry is to be rendered thus:

AIIII! AIII! THE BETHBERRY! THE BETHBERRY HAS COME!

Helen, with Bethberry's good and true blade-hilt artistically protruding from her sternum, keels over in a dead swoon. Her arm, flung by the force of her fall, lifelessly points to Roggie Of Morgoth's eyeliner, which despite all claims on the packaging has begun to smoulder around the edges. Roggie looks down on the lifeless form, and with a sigh of regret, sends a glare towards Helen's Bane, who comes to retrieve her blade.

"You could have let her write one good swoon-post. Just one, " he mutters, and stomps off, swiping his whip-handle at his smouldering eyeliner. "Get this stuff off of me. Where's that Mirrormere again? Outside? Drat. Another forest fire, and I'm the one that gets cursed for it."

[Boromir88]

I sit back, read this, and laugh, and just wonder how we come up with some of the discussions we have on the downs, it's just mind boggling.

[The Barrow-Wight]

Let's get back on topic, please. We are wandering.

[The Saucepan Man]

I must admit that I am somewhat alarmed at the concept that one person, or a handful of people, can or should determine what is "good" on the Downs. From a personal point of view, I fully applaud HI's taste, but I do not accept the principle. By which I mean that, in my humble opinion, the Reputation list should reflect the views of all members (or all currently active members at least), not just one or two, and we cannot expect everyone to have the time or inclination to search through a myriad of posts in order to award sufficent reputation to enable them to go back and rep a particular post that tickled their fancy.

If I see a post which I react favourably to but cannot rep because I have repped the poster recently, then I simply don't rep it. Chances are that I will rep another of that person's posts later when I am able to. Equally, I accept that not everyone who likes one of my posts will be able to rep it if they have repped me recently. To my mind, that's simply a function of the system.

[HerenIstarion]

If I see a post which I react favourably to but cannot rep because I have repped the poster recently, then I simply don't rep it.

Maybe it can be stored by bookmarking it? You can go back to it later, when you've 'spread' sufficient amount of reputation 'around'. Than your time is saved - you don't need to rep other ten posts right now on the spot, and quality of reputation-giving is preserved as well, for eagerness to rate what you liked may make you rate what you've barely read. I remember having mere remark of mine positively (and anonimously) rated, and comments read that it was done in a hurry with the goal of rating other post by other user in mind. Better have to-do list, I reckon

Master Architect (I was flattered, really) re: I believe you don't blame me for that?! But, kidding apart, even with high reputing ratio, I don't think it is or ever may be entirely my or any one person's 'doing'. Poetic exaggeration it was rather . It may have been if all but one promised to abstain from reputing at all, but that would not happen.

Roggie re: Maybe he'll reappear in RPG, if I ever get fired from this dratted office and have more time. That's not a promise, mind you

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

Maybe it can be stored by bookmarking it? You can go back to it later, when you've 'spread' sufficient amount of reputation 'around'.

You can bookmark posts? How do you do that then? Nevertheless, given the general high quality of posting, it could still become rather time-consuming keeping up. The kinds of posters that I am talking about generate rather a substantial volume of good posts. And I do prefer to spread the rep points that I give around, rather than simply rating the same people again and again (good though their posts generally are).

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

But, kidding apart, even with high reputing ratio, I don't think it is or ever may be entirely my or any one person's 'doing'.

True. But, when one or a few people are rating at a much higher rate than anyone else, it will "skew" (for want of a better word) the result.

[Imladris]

You can bookmark posts? How do you do that then?

For those of you cursed with a Windows computer and blessed with Firefox, you can right click the post number and push bookmark page. Or you can just click the Post Number link and bookmark just like any other web page.

[Bêthberry]

The Saucepan Man posted:
True. But, when one or a few people are rating at a much higher rate than anyone else, it will "skew" (for want of a better word) the result.

No different, really, than any election in a democracy. Those who choose not to vote lose a chance to influence the results. Rather than skewering the 'skewer' wouldn't it better to prod others to participate? I think it was HerenIstarion's enthusiasm which helped get the system going. Sometimes people are shy of new 'technology' and need to see how it can be used before venturing forth themselves with it.

For my part, I had a very good reason for wanting to rep Esty again so quickly and this was not something which would occur regularly. I had wanted to remember Esty's post which I could not yet rep in particular because of its topic: a reference to her fanfiction about Folco, something that I could not rep any other way. I wanted Esty to know that her 'canonical writing' (as opposed to her 'parodic writing') was being recognised.

posted again by Sauce
And I do prefer to spread the rep points that I give around, rather than simply rating the same people again and again (good though their posts generally are).

As do I, especially with the newer members. Once reason why I sometimes look through older threads, in addition to the good reading material they provide, is to find other Downers who might not be participating in "this week's hot topic" but who nonetheless do contribute substantially to the Downs. Especially when there is now such a big spread in 'points' I think it is well to recognise those deserving members who have just joined or who post less frequently. (Note I say 'deserving.' I don't 'spread it around' indiscriminately.)

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

No different, really, than any election in a democracy. Those who choose not to vote lose a chance to influence the results.

I totally accept your second sentence. Those who choose not to rep have to accept that others will determine the outcome. But in an election, if you choose to vote then your vote counts as much as any other person who chooses to vote. Whereas our system allows for one or more members to make their votes, and thus their opinions, to count for more by virtue of "energetic" repping.

I certainly agree that people should be encouraged to rep a post whenever they feel the inclination to do so. But I have some reservations about people going out of their way (and being encouraged to go out of their way) to do so. Because, for perfectly valid reasons, not everyone has the time or inclination to do so.

Ultimately, though, I do not have any problems with the way in which the Rep table is developing (how could I? ), and I think that it it is generally a very good and worthwhile system. It is, however, as well to acknowledge that, if certain members tend to rep much more than others, then the results will be skewed towards their tastes.

[HerenIstarion]

Whereas our system allows for one or more members to make their votes, and thus their opinions, to count for more by virtue of "energetic" repping

That true as well. But 'energetic' repping brings people to have more reputing/rating power than they originally had. The more I raise somebody's point score, the more points they themselves can give out. After all, each little square counts for one point power (?). Per instance, when the whole system was launched, my power must have been some six or seven, merely cause I've been around for so long, and posted so much. Now it is twelve (?). People who used to rate with 2 points now give 7, 8 or even 9. In addition to one point for each year of membership, one for every thousand of posts and what with that fourth dimension called time, I believe system tends to average, given that participants do not slack too much.

Besides, again, it is not my fault . Do you suggest I or somebody who is equally 'energetic' stop rating cause some anonymous 'shy guys' do not rate as much? I can't issue a bill for them to 'start rating this instant!', but it would not work other way round either

[Lhunardawen]

Has anyone else noticed that most of the top rep givers are also the top rep receivers? Does it help improve your reputation, then, if you keep on giving well-deserved reps with your name signed, ceteris paribus (i.e. keep on posting sensible posts)? Just wondering...ignore me...

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I think the factor of representative voting should be considered as well. Almost every survey is taken to be accurate, though only a fraction of the population is asked for an opinion, since each vote counts for many others. Those who have stayed around here long enough to pack some punch with their rep giving are normally those who are familiar with the spirit of the Downs and have indeed contributed to it substantially - otherwise they wouldn't still be here! I consider their votes representative for others who do not give out points as often. I doubt that there would be much difference if every active member rated every post - but as in every democratic system, those who are dissatisfied need to speak up and be heard!

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Well, herm, I've been wanting to say something about this for a few days but it might prove a bit. . .that is, I don't want to appear. . .hoom hoom baroom boom. . .it's a bit awkward, but. . .well. . .the thing is. . .you see. . .I rather like the system the way it is, but not, you know, because I've been the fortunate recipient of so much encouragement!

For the reasons that Esty gives above, I think that the weighting system makes a certain amount of sense, and for the reasons H-I gives above I think that we should be encouraging people to rep more often.

I also agree with Saucy though that we don't want to encourage spurious posting just to get through enough that we can rep a particular post again. If I try to rep a post but find I cannot, then, well, like Sauce I just figure that another post from that person will come around. I do try to send off a PM though, to let the person know how much I liked the post.

I tend to be a rather streaky repper, however. I rep irregularly for a week or so, then sit myself down for an hour of Downs time with the express purpose of (re)reading the threads that I've been enjoying in the last while and repping those posts that have been making the thread so good. On days like this it does become, sometimes, an exercise is 'getting back' to people as there might be a post that, at the beginning of the binge, is one I cannot rep, but by the time I'm finished, I can.

I think that bottom line to all this is that everyone has their own way of repping. I also think that so long as the repping is being done judiciously then no matter how one is going about it, the results will be generally reflective of the consensus hereabouts. . .urm. . .that is. . .I hope it is. . .oh dear, this is genuinely embarassing. . .

[Lalwendë]

Dare I say this? I have noticed that the 'rep' system is quite socialist. I mean, the wealth of points must be equally distributed, so as to ensure that all participants get a chance of points...

But yes, more people should get involved and have a go at handing out some points. I think the reason for people not doing this is firstly a certain amount of shyness/uncertainty, and also members may not be sure if their 'rep points' are worth anything; I know that both of these things held me back at first.

[Bêthberry]

In terms of Sauce's concern over "energetic" reppers, it should be remembered that there is a limit on the number of reps that can be given out in any 24-hour period, so it is not as if there were carte blanche on the 'ballot stuffers'.

And, also, no post can be repped twice by the same username. It isn't quite "vote early, vote often" !

However, there is that old chestnut about justice: not only must it be done, but it must be seen to be done and I think here I share some of Sauce's concern. The operation of the repping system must be seen and understood and it should particularly be recognised that not all reppers have the same repping weight. My analogy to democracy really breaks down here, as some votes here do carry more weight than others. I suppose Estelyn's analogy to surveys fits more properly, although our system hardly has the statistical controls of good surveys.

Lhunardawen posted:

Has anyone else noticed that most of the top rep givers are also the top rep receivers? Does it help improve your reputation, then, if you keep on giving well-deserved reps with your name signed, ceteris paribus (i.e. keep on posting sensible posts)? Just wondering...ignore me.

We never used to include our names with the rep until Piosenniel made her very well-received point about anonymity. Maybe there are some who develop a 'reciprocity' habit; I can't see into the minds of people here and know their intentions, just as I believe we cannot know in its entirety an author's intention (What?--an allusion to that C-thread? ). What is it that accounts for 'presence' on an internet forum? After all, SaucepanMan apparently has a fan club, but I don't.

Fordim posted:

I tend to be a rather streaky poster, however.

Streaking, Fordim? Now, are you asking to be stalked?

[HerenIstarion]

Justice, than:

If anyone is bothered by not being able to give out more points, look from another angle - those with superior rating power inevitably receive less points than they give out

Or, not to play burra (btw, another missed one) here - I see it as very balanced system - every advantage one may enjoy has another side to it.

cheers

EDIT: when I say receive less, I mean at one go. END OF EDIT

[Boromir88]

In our voting system today, yes every person's vote counts as one, but let's look at the electoral college. Delaware has what 3 electoral votes? Florida has about 40, I'm not up on the electoral college but I know their's an imbalance. What that leads to is the canidates will concentrate on the "big daddies" and not care about picking up the small "delaware's." There's a good and bad side to the electoral college, because a person can win California, Florida, and let's say Ohio, and they will be half way to the necessary points needed to win the election, or the points everyone is shooting for. ( which I believe is 263). Indeed it's a good and bad system, where the states (or in this case the barrowdowners), that are more "powerful," get more of a say, so I think you got to look at it from the electoral college standpoint. It is a good and bad system, every system is flawed, I tend to say just stick with the way it is now, if it's working fine, stick with it.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

*ahem!* No political references please - though some comparison may be made, the main topic is still the reputation system on the Downs, not the voting system of the U.S.!

[Boromir88]

My mistake, just trying to compare the electoral college to the reputation system of the bd, where the more "reputatious" people have more "rep points to award" then some of the smaller, rep people, if you get my meaning.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

But yes, more people should get involved and have a go at handing out some points. I think the reason for people not doing this is firstly a certain amount of shyness/uncertainty, and also members may not be sure if their 'rep points' are worth anything; I know that both of these things held me back at first.

The rep may not carry points but it is not worthless.....

[Lindolirian]

Say, is there any way to get a list of the members with the most weight to give? Would that not also be a measure of "Most Valuble Member?" It would include a mix of longevity, amount of contribution, and quality of contribution, so pretty much how good they are to the forum. And besides, it'd be a fun contest.

[Lhunardawen]

If it is not too much to ask, Chief Wight, can we have another list before the year ends? I'm just curious to see how repping has changed after this thread has been started.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Lindolirian

Say, is there any way to get a list of the members with the most weight to give? Would that not also be a measure of "Most Valuble Member?" It would include a mix of longevity, amount of contribution, and quality of contribution, so pretty much how good they are to the forum. And besides, it'd be a fun contest.

Surely this list would still be topped by Heren Istarion the Munificent. The Downs' answer to Father Christmas but with the added advantage of being real.......

[HerenIstarion]

ho-ho-ho... um?