LotR -- Book 2 - Chapter 04 - A Journey in the Dark

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Yes, Saucy - I can remember that we've discussed Pippin's instinctive aspects and his closeness to all things spiritual, though I don't remember which thread that was. Often, those character traits are attributed to women, aren't they? And perhaps Merry's organisational abilities and skills as a "do-er" are more masculine, which would mean that the two of them complement each other. Mind you, that's not intended to be a generalization of feminine and masculine character, but as there's no female in the Fellowhip, Pippin seems to be the one who takes that role to some extent. There has to be someone ("dumb blonde" ) to whom things are explained, someone who follows the others' lead, someone who makes mistakes that turn out to be for the good because of some instinctive sense that can't be logically explained.

I'm not sure whether those spontaneous thoughts hold water, but it's worth thinking about.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Elsewhere, I've likened the Merry-Pippin relationship/pairing to the Frodo-Sam relationship/pairing. I think that we can look at them, not so much in gender terms, but in terms of awareness and intuition. That is, Merry and Frodo 'do good' consciously, whereas the 'good' that comes from Pippin's and Sam's actions is unconscious, insofar as they aren't trying to accomplish the Good (i.e. bring about Gandalf's transformation, destroy the Ring) but are just 'being' good (i.e. true friends, loyal, perhaps a bit foolish).

Merry and Frodo are players in a larger plan who are aware that they are players in a larger plan -- they have roles to perform which they can identify and pursue. Pippin and Sam aren't aware of their roles, but perform them anyway for the sake of the other people they love.

This, incidentally, brings me back to the Gollum-Gandalf association I was thinking about above: they dramatize in the most extreme way this conscious/unconscious accomplishment of good. Nobody knows more about the situation and what needs to be done than Gandalf, and nobody knows less about the situation than Gollum (who is wholly concerned with himself). It is interesting that the consciously good character falls to his death with the Balrog, while the unconsciously 'good' character falls to his death with the Ring. Both falls are necessary for the accomplishment of the Good, but it would seem that Tolkien is in some way privileging the unconscious or unknowing/intuitive characters in this respect. Frodo depends upon Sam; Pippin gets Gandalf to Minas Tirith; Gollum destroys the Ring.

Herm. . .hoom. . .baroom-boom -- mustn't be hasty with this idea. . .will wait for later chapters to see how it plays out. . .

[davem]

Peregrine: a pilgrim or traveller in a foreign land; to live in a foreign country, to go on a pilgrimage; - to traverse- foreign looking;a complet & systematic course or round; a sojourn abroad.
Pippinsomething or someone especially nice, attractive, good.(Chambers Dictionary)

I think this pretty much sums up Pippin - especially nice, attractive, good on a pilgrimage or sojourn abroad.

He's very much like the Grail knight Perceval, or Peredur, innocent but curious, getting himself into various scrapes, but coming through in the end. He is drawn to 'dark things, but not out of malice, or a tendency towards evil, but out of curiosity, a desire to discover things. In a sense he is like the medieval pilgrims - he has a goal but is not averse to stepping aside & following his curiosity, or even like the Fool in Tarot, shown about to step off a cliff into the unknown, with a little dog pulling at his stocking, trying to hold him back from disaster, but he himself ignores it, as he is full of trust in God, fate, the Universe, whatever label you want to attatch.

Actually, its that innocent trust that preserves him, endears him to us, makes us care about him. Its not that he is unaware of dangers, of the risks he faces & even leads others into - its that his trust, his belief that whatever happens, 'All shall be well, & all shall be well, & all manner of thing shall be well' (Mother Julian of Norwich) that makes him so necessary to the Fellowship. His innocence may infuriate but it also uplifts.

In the end, he does learn the lessons that he needs to, but he is never overwhelmed by what he faces, & never loses his innocent joie de vivre. If he & Merry make their way home from the haves laughing & singing, I bet its Pippin who starts them off, because he, of all of the Companions, knows that there is light beyond any apparent darkness & joy beyond the walls of the world.

[Boromir88]

Davem, thanks for providing us with the word origins of peregrin and Pippin. Tolkien does seem to use common words to give description, or information about his characters. A quick example would be the word sylvan, which means a "forested areas, arcadian." Hence, Silvan Elves.

SpM I never really thought about Pippin like that before. Now, it makes me wonder if Pippin's curiosity stopped a whole lot of "bad" from happening. It makes me wonder, if Pippin's viewing of the palantir sped up Gandalf leaving Rohan for Minas Tirith. We have Gandalf and everyone sort of lounging around in Rohan, just getting done with war, and Saruman, and if Pippin hadn't of looked in the palantir, who knows, maybe Gandalf wouldn't have been in such haste to get to Minas Tirith. But, I will save that part of the convo when the time is right .

[Encaitare]

As Esty said, Merry is more of a doer, while Pippin is more of an instigator, even though he doesn't intend to be. Pippin seems to get things rolling, and Merry helps finish them off in the end. I suppose the best example (or the best that I can think of, anyway) would be Pippin's looking in the Palantir causing Gandalf and Pippin's arrival at Minas Tirith, thus beginning the action there, and then Merry eventually reaching the city and helping to finish things off by aiding in the slaying of the Witch-King.

Not sure if that was entirely relevant to the chapter... *sidles off quietly*

[davem]

Just a last couple of thoughts on this chapter - first Holly. This is a tree with a lot of symbolism. As an evergreen it symbolised everlasting life; in Christian belief it was associated with the Crown of Thorns, with the berries symbolising the drops of blood. It was also used as a barrier to keep out natural & unnatural enemies. It was believed that no evil could pass a barrier or gateway of holly. So its quite symbolic that the Elves planted holly trees at the doorway to Moria, & also quite significant, given what is to happen, that they are thrown down (much to Gandalf's regret).

The second thing (maybe this is me reading too much into the story) is that the Moria episode begins with Frodo being grabbed by the ankle by the Watcher, & ends with Gandalf being 'grabbed' round the knees by the Balrog's whip & pulled into the depths - almost as if someone is to be taken by evil, & Gandalf has substituted himself for Frodo - 'Greater love hath no man than this: that he lay down his life for his friends'.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Sorry for being quite late. Two chapters late, to be specific.

But these thoughts must be said. Be free, my words!

Gandalf's flowchart.

I should have discussed Gandalf's reason for the passage of Moria in the previous chapter, but it seems better to put them here, as most of my quotes come from this chapter.

There are two levels to Gandalf’s reasoning, whether be it choice of Ringfinder, Ringbearer, or a proper path.

I. The Immediate

[Gandalf: ]To do that I used in my waking mind only such means as were allowed to me, doing what lay to my hand according to such reasons as I had. (UT III 3)

The quote seems pretty self-explanatory, but I’ll add a comment anyway. Every decision Gandalf makes has a reason that is sufficient for him, however it may seem to anyone else. (Case in point: why need a stolider breed in a hobbit going on an adventure, or why bring that hobbit at all? Those are my personal doubts, and before you barrage me with answers, we’ll move on to the next.)

II. Higher Guidance

To Gandalf the far-off memories of a journey long before were now of little help, but even in the gloom and despite all the windings of the road he knew whither he wished to go; and he did not falter as long as there was a path that led toward his goal. (LotR II 4 – emphasis mine)

[Aragorn: ]He will not go astray—if there is any path to find. He has led us here against our fears, but he will lead us out again, at whatever cost to himself. (ibid)

Here in the modern times we call such things luck, or fate, or intuition. But in Middle-earth it is something else. From such trivial task as choosing the right path through Moria to such major decisions as choosing to march to Morannon, Gandalf remained faithful to the One that put him on this mission, knowing that this “fool’s” quest to Mt. Doom (and indeed, his entire quest in Middle-earth) would be finished by his master, accepting any limitations as a part of his decision to trust higher guidance (as we will see in the next chapter). We may not know the reason for his actions (perhaps even he himself does not, at times) but we need not have one. Hey, after all, they worked, didn’t they?

Pippin and the Atani

Once, as part of a reply to Fordim’s “Paired Characters in LotR” thread, I tried to determine whether Merry and Pippin’s link to Rohan and Gondor, respectively, has a deeper significance. I ended up not posting it because I lacked the sufficient proof to make it stand. But now I know my research has not been all in vain. Whee!

Pippin’s “flirtation” with the darkness mirror’s Men’s (specifically, the Atani's) dealing with the darkness at large. At first, it was out of innocence; hey, he didn’t know what was in the well! The same can be said of Men. Morgoth came and seduced them to darkness while they were still new to the world.

Then the second was out of defiance. He wanted a look at the palantír, and he was gonna get it himself. Now tell me: doesn’t this remind you of a certain golden king? Wanted a taste of that immortal land, sent an army to take it? Now here is where it gets stickier: as a result of the Downfall, Elendil and his sons ended up where they were needed. Horse ride to Minas Tirith, anyone?

Some Comments

1.

So from the group of 9, we'll call it a "loose friendship", not really strong, and as you say it just seems one despair after another. It breaks, and out pops out, smaller, stronger bonds, between the fellowship members. (Boromir88)

. . . shared fear wasn’t something to overcome. It was the mutual support system that turned people of disparate backgrounds and intellects and interests into a single bonded organism . . . It was what made a whole greater than the sum of its parts (Op-Center: Mirror Image)

At first, these people had their own reasons for joining the Fellowship. Boromir and Aragorn were off to Minas Tirith. Sam, Merry, and Pippin still think of this as a hobbit walking-party. In a word, the Fellowship was unglued.

For a moment, during the Warg attack, they became united. They all feared the attackers, and that forced them to aim for one thing. But as the fears subsided, they disintegrated again. Once again, it was a fear (of Moria this time) that forced them together again. Clearly, this Fellowship would not go far without fear to bind them, but they couldn’t do their mission if they kept focusing on an immediate fear.

After the breaking, they all became bound by some shared fear. The Three Hunters feared for Merry and Pippin. Merry and Pippin feared the Orcs (who can blame them?) Frodo and Sam feared the deadly effect of the Ring on the rest of the Companions. Later their old fears subsided but new ones took their place. Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli feared for Rohan, then Gondor. Merry and Pippin feared Isengard, then Merry (with Éowyn) feared for Théoden, while Pippin (with Beregond) feared for Faramir. Their shared fears progressed from the immediate to something worthy of the quest.

Of course, their bond didn’t remain fear forever (case in point: Legolas and Gimli) but it was due to the fears they shared that they were knit together more closely than anything else. And more quickly, might I add.

2.

Uh, Fordim . . .

. . . Boromir’s sentiment is rather dismissive of Gimli — is he classing the Dwarf as one of “the little folk” or is he pointedly not seeking his opinion? (Fordim)

Gimli already voiced his opinion. He was the first to speak up.