Linguistic puns, riddles, and jokes in LotR, etc. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mithalwen · 10-04-2004, 11:42 AM

Although the standard transltion of Legolas is "Green Leaf" there is a good punning alternative - Laigo = sharp/ acute and L(h)as = ears a pointy eared bow-twanger indeed..

littlemanpoet · 10-04-2004, 07:23 PM

Boromir and Faramir.

I can't imagine that Tolkien thought this way: boring pond and faraway pond. Faramir always has struck me as the more feminine of the two names.

More likely, he was after Boromir as a forceful boar (or bore?); Faramir as farsighted?

Estelyn Telcontar · 10-14-2004, 04:50 AM

While poring over hobbit family trees, researching for something I want to write, I discovered something I find very amusing. The three fabulous Took sisters have four syllable names each, but they are made up of a total of only six syllables. That means each sister has two syllables from each of the others! Their names form a chain, so to speak: Belladonna, Donnamira, Mirabella. Belladonna has been mentioned as the deadly nightshade; I'm not sure yet whether the other two names have a botanic meaning. In German, "Mirabelle" is a yellow plum. So far, my searching for further meaning has not yielded any results.

Farmira · 10-20-2004, 01:10 PM

Well simply put... if we translated it very vaugly...

*bella* donna = *night* shade
Donna mirra = shade yellow?
Mirra *bella* = yellow *night* ?

Well a plum is dark in color... and maybe the color just before night?? I doubt if tolkien dove this deep into thinking about all of this... but maybe bella could be translated as "night" or "plum"...
... maybe im completely wrong... but if the chain is meant to be translated literally... i guess that would be the closest thing to it...

Guinevere · 10-20-2004, 02:17 PM

Well, literally "bella donna " means" beautiful woman" in Italian!
(Hence the name of the deadly nightshade "atropa belladonna"; it was used in small quantities to dilate the eye-pupils... (and is still medically used for that purpose)

akhtene · 11-04-2004, 06:15 PM

For some time I've been wondering over the following question - was Tolkien familiar with Russian and could he make use of some Russian words?

While reading UT I came across the word DRUG. In Russian it means friend or companion - just the role that the Druedain were playing for the folk of Haleth.

In a couple of names there is a stem VORON that is like raven, a bird that serves as messenger of gods - sounds true in case of Voronwe.

Anyway, is there something in all that?

Elianna · 11-04-2004, 08:48 PM

Tolkein had a "working knowledge" of Russian, so it's possible that he meant to do those things.

10-04-2004, 11:42 AM	#1
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Although the standard transltion of Legolas is "Green Leaf" there is a good punning alternative - Laigo = sharp/ acute and L(h)as = ears a pointy eared bow-twanger indeed.. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

10-04-2004, 07:23 PM	#2
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	You may yell at me if this is old territory.... Boromir and Faramir. I can't imagine that Tolkien thought this way: boring pond and faraway pond. Faramir always has struck me as the more feminine of the two names. More likely, he was after Boromir as a forceful boar (or bore?); Faramir as farsighted?

10-14-2004, 04:50 AM	#3
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	While poring over hobbit family trees, researching for something I want to write, I discovered something I find very amusing. The three fabulous Took sisters have four syllable names each, but they are made up of a total of only six syllables. That means each sister has two syllables from each of the others! Their names form a chain, so to speak: Belladonna, Donnamira, Mirabella. Belladonna has been mentioned as the deadly nightshade; I'm not sure yet whether the other two names have a botanic meaning. In German, "Mirabelle" is a yellow plum. So far, my searching for further meaning has not yielded any results. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

10-20-2004, 02:17 PM	#5
Guinevere Banshee of Camelot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5,830	Well, literally "bella donna " means" beautiful woman" in Italian! (Hence the name of the deadly nightshade "atropa belladonna"; it was used in small quantities to dilate the eye-pupils... (and is still medically used for that purpose) __________________ Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!

11-04-2004, 06:15 PM	#6
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	For some time I've been wondering over the following question - was Tolkien familiar with Russian and could he make use of some Russian words? While reading UT I came across the word DRUG. In Russian it means friend or companion - just the role that the Druedain were playing for the folk of Haleth. In a couple of names there is a stem VORON that is like raven, a bird that serves as messenger of gods - sounds true in case of Voronwe. Anyway, is there something in all that? __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

10-20-2004, 01:10 PM	#4
Farmira Pile O'Bones Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: where i wished i lived... Minas tirith Posts: 14	Well simply put... if we translated it very vaugly... bella donna = night shade Donna mirra = shade yellow? Mirra bella = yellow night ? Well a plum is dark in color... and maybe the color just before night?? I doubt if tolkien dove this deep into thinking about all of this... but maybe bella could be translated as "night" or "plum"... ... maybe im completely wrong... but if the chain is meant to be translated literally... i guess that would be the closest thing to it...

11-04-2004, 08:48 PM	#7
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Tolkein had a "working knowledge" of Russian, so it's possible that he meant to do those things. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.