LotR -- Book 2 - Chapter 01 - Many Meetings

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

I have been following the comments on the color green in these threads, with some degree of interest. I have long been fond of the hue, and if pressed might just declare it my favorite, so I am finding it rather amusing to discover all the associations and symbolism it brings up. On that note I am finding it rather odd that it should be somehow connected with death, for to my mind, it is invariably connected to verdant growth and life, and standing for obvious reasons for nature. But perhaps I am misunderstanding. I can see that the faerie world and perhaps a sort of earth-based magic conceivably fit this color. Even the sickly greens reminiscent of rot and disease, as discussed in the Fog on the Barrow Downs thread, could in their own right be associated with corrupted form of nature rather than say a spirit world.

So Frodo’s being arrayed in green did not strike me as otherworldly. Especially, taking into consideration it is a favorite color of the hobbits as well. But it does seem striking that so much is made of the color. Aragorn is also dressed in green if you recall, and he insisted Bilbo mention the green stone in his poem. It does appear to be a color of some significance. And if it does represent, for instance, his moving on to a different mindset, I think we can say it is a mindset that Aragorn already possesses.

Also mentioned before, I think, but amusing to note once again, is how similar hobbits and elves are in that they only seem interested in the things that concern their people directly, as expressed by Lindir and Gildor. As I write this I am realizing that my feeble judgement rests solely on the comments of two elves! Mercy me! Still, it makes me smile.

The mention of Balin almost passes by unnoticed, in the stream of dwarven names. But it is interesting to see Tolkien tying the events in Moria.

I always felt this was Frodo's perception of Bilbo, rather than something that happened to him, & can't help but wonder to what extent he was seeing Bilbo as Sauron would have seen him - seeing Bilbo, the person he loves most in the world as 'a little wrinkled creature with a hungry face and bony groping hands' who he feels a desire to strike.' seems somehow deeply out of character for Frodo…

Yes, davem. I agree completely! Something more is afoot in this passage. And I seriously doubt that there was any real change in either Bilbo or his behavior.

[Lalwendë]

Hilde - I too would not associate it with death, but like davem says in his first post on this thread, I'd also associate green with the 'otherworld'. I think it does have some sinister undertones (no pun intended) as a colour, due to this association; it's considered unlucky to wear green at a wedding or to dress a child in green, and witches traditionally have green eyes. I do like the way that elves and hobbits seem to have such a fondness for the colour, as it lends a mystical air to think of someone slipping through woodlands, cloaked in green.

The meeting between Bilbo and Frodo where Bilbo asks to see the ring reminds me of a father and son, wary of one another and Bilbo's words after the ring has been put away are touching. He feels regret that his heir, a hobbit who is very much like his own son, has in effect been 'signed up' for war.

One thing struck me the very first time I read this, and that was the appearance of Aragorn standing beside Arwen - here was the rough ranger dressed in kingly fashion, and although the text is very subtle, it was something of a revelation to me exactly why they were standing together, and the image made a big impression on me at that age. I still like these sentences, as Tolkien managed to express their relationship delicately but powerfully in just these few lines. Quite the opposite to the movie.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Yes, 'other world' but not 'netherworld', I suppose. And I certainly hope the association of green with death and witches derives from the faerie tradition and not the other way round! But at this gathering, Frodo has become recognized as part of the history of Middle-earth, and his simpler life has died. So in some respect, I see these green garments as a symbolic of his new, vital role in history.

It is strange too, how Frodo, when talking with Gandalf about encountering the Witch King, says that it was good he didn't know exactly what the effect of the knife would be, or he would have been too scared to move. Yet as we will see, now that he does know the sort of things he is up against, he volunteers to continue. I wonder if he really was made of sterner stuff than he thought, or whether it was a function of this life long wound. Are some of his actions at this stage to be attributed to the pull of the ring, or rather his close call with becoming a wraith himself?

They tried to pierce your heart with a Morgul-knife which remains in the wound.

…then suddenly it seemed to Frodo that Arwen turned toward him, and the light of her eyes fell on him from afar and pieced his heart.

These two lines also caught my attention, like bookends. But it is interesting that Tolkien has the light of Arwen’s eyes and not simply her gaze itself effectively pierce Frodo's heart. Earlier, he mentions that thought and knowledge were in her glance, but the light of the stars were in her eyes.

[Lhunardawen]

Finally reaching Strider and the hobbits' first destination, I felt a sigh of relief escaping my lips. Never mind whatever is happening in the world outside nor what danger is yet to come; in this place there is peace, there is healing, and there are Elves, sir!

I was as joyful as Frodo probably was upon again seeing Gandalf. But when he said

At the moment I will only say that I was held captive

I was disheartened. He was depicted in the previous chapters as a powerful person, and this created doubt. It made me wonder what other dangers are in the world. The Nazgul were scary enough. Is there actually something, or someone, worse?

The way Elrond was mentioned by Gandalf made him seem like he was under the authority of the Halfelf. Honestly, I thought that Elrond was a killjoy, an "old maid" what with all his orders. I knew it was all for Frodo's welfare, but after all he's been through, maybe he would cut him some slack.

I agree with Frodo with this:

Thank goodness I did not realize the horrible danger! I was mortally afraid, of course; but if I had known more, I should not have dared even to move. It is a marvel that I escaped!

Hopelessness would have paralyzed him, even with the presence of Strider and Glorfindel, knowing how powerful his enemies are and what the consequences of his being caught will be. Thank goodness indeed!

Moving into the latter part of the chapter, I saw another reason for Aragorn's swoon-worthiness.

They were so deep in the doings of the Four Farthings that they did not notice the arrival of a man clad in a dark green cloth. For many minutes he stood looking down at them with a smile.

It was a simple smile, yes, but it touched my heart so: the thought of a kingly man being so concerned with the little hobbits! He even gave his time to help Bilbo with his song--time he could have instead spent with his beloved Arwen (if daddy agrees ), as he was not able to before because of the arrival of Elladan and Elrohir (her brothers, incidentally).

The latter deed concerning Elladan and Elrohir made me realize the sacrifices he has to make for his love for Arwen. I see it this way: the pressing news brought by Elladan and Elrohir concerns, more likely than not, the War of the Ring. And as Elrond said in the Appendix (forgive me, Esty) that he would not let his daughter marry someone less then the King of Gondor or something like that, Aragorn had to put matters related to this first. So instead of spending only a short time with Arwen, as he could have done in this chapter, he chose to do something that (hopefully) in the end would lead to him being with her for the rest of their lives. Swoon!

[Guinevere]

*Trying to catch up* It was very interesting to read all your posts and as usual I learnt a lot..
I didn't know that the colour green was associated with Faeries, and hitherto the mention of the new green clothes for Frodo had quite escaped my attention. (For me green just stood for nature and life and hope."Grün ist die Hoffnung" as we say in German)

I love Gandalf's cryptic remark about Frodo

"He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can".

I think it refers somehow to Frodo's spiritual growth. Much later on their journey it is stated that Sam can see that light:

Then as he kept watch, Sam had noticed that at times a light seemed to be shining faintly within; but now the light was even clearer and stronger. Frodo’s face was peaceful, the marks of fear and care had left it; but it looked old, old and beautiful, as if the chiselling of the shaping years was now revealed in many fine lines that had before been hidden; though the identity of the face was not changed. Not that Sam put it that way to himself. He shook his head, as if finding words useless, and murmured: „I love him. He’s like that, and sometimes it shines through, somehow. But I love him, whether or no.“

I think Faramir can see it too.
And the picture of the glass filled with clear light somehow reminds me of Galadriel's phial.

That moment when Sam comes in I find particularly touching:

He ran to Frodo and took his left hand, awkwardly and shyly. He stroked it gently and then he blushed and turned hastily away.

Sam is very fond of his master and adores him. His joy at finding him well overwhelms him, yet he is afraid to show his feelings, he probably thinks that as a servant he isn’t entitled to act like that..

I love the description of the Elves and their music. Its effect on Frodo reminded me of what Tolkien wrote about the elvish craft, enchantment in „On Fairy-Stories“

To find Bilbo in Rivendell was a big surprise for Frodo. Though Gandalf, Aragorn and Gildor knew all along that Bilbo was there, none of them had told it to Frodo who had been so longing for news about Bilbo ! I wonder why?

At my first reading, I could make neither head nor tail of Bilbo’s „Earendil poem“ I kept wondering what it was about.. More glimpses of a mysterious past, and very intriguing, like the non-translated Elbereth song. (I had no rest til I had found out its meaning…thanks to the internet .)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So here we are, moving on to the next book. We ended up with a cliffhanger, as we will at the end of each book (more or less, except the last), and now the first chapter begins - and it is peaceful and relaxing, as the stay in Rivendell was for Frodo. My impression from this chapter was like that this time: Let's catch up the breath and relax now, while we can. This is the last time we actually can - everything's in place, the Ring is in Rivendell, and nothing evil can happen here, as Gandalf says in this chapter. There will be no other place like that - even in Lórien and such, there is the knowledge of the perilous journey ahead and the despair of the desperate mission lies upon us. Now is the time when we don't know anything about any future quest yet and can just enjoy the atmosphere of the valley.

The atmosphere makes large part of the chapter, another thing is using the time to explain things which happened. During Gandalf's speech to Frodo at the beginning, we learn a lot of information and with Frodo we get lots of answers: what happened at the Ford, what happened before, what the Riders intended, who they were, what the Morgul-Blade was supposed to do, why was Gandalf delayed (sort of - it is not still explained concretely) and other things.

What I noticed this time is that several of the characters we already know are emphasised in this chapter and we learn more about them, namely Glorfindel and Aragorn. About Glorfindel we first hear from Gandalf and here we hear what he really is, we confirm what we just assumed from the previous chapter: that he is not "just an ordinary Elf" but someone noble, ancient and powerful. This returns when we see him sitting at the table next to Elrond (and opposite to Gandalf). Let me make a little excourse now - I just thought how interesting this is when I used the words "opposite to Gandalf" - Glorfindel actually is something like an opposite to Gandalf, not meaning any "anti-Gandalf", but more like "second to the pair". I think this might be interesting if one looked at their characteristics deeper (although there's not that much about Glorfindel), but let me name one thing for all - facing the Balrog (that is, if we agree that Glorfindel really is the Glorfindel of Gondolin - which I take as given, but the fact is that it is not stated explicitely anywhere as far as I know).
Anyway, the second character worth noticing is Strider, about whom we finally learn (although also not explicitely, but we can put it together from the hints given) his reason for longing so much for Rivendell. Also, we learn about him being "Dúnadan" and we learn who he is (again, twice: first Gandalf says to Frodo that he is "just a Ranger", of course, but that what the Rangers are are the Kings of Men; second, Bilbo explains to Frodo what Dúnadan is - this really looks to me like Frodo is somewhat slow in realising these things). We also have cryptic clues like that Aragorn has something to do with the song of Eärendil and the green stone and other things.

Which brings me to the poem of Eärendil, which is a beautiful piece of work, and I actually realised how beautiful and how strong images it has only after I learned to sing it (not in English, though) - I suggest everyone to try that. Another song is the song of Elbereth, written only in Elven language here, and I actually recall I never cared about that. I knew the song in Elvish, and was singing it since I first read the books, and I never cared that I don't know the translation (actually, I thought it is something similar to the song sung by Gildor, maybe even the same - which it actually is not?). I am saying that because that surely says something about the effect of including the song in the book.

What else? I could name the minor characters in this chapter - Bilbo, Glóin (very nice fellow. There is actually a tension he causes, since although he provides nice connection and reminds us of the Dwarves from TH, we learn that something happened to several of them - and actually they are the three ones I liked among the most, especially Balin, and I am sure Tolkien was aware of that Balin will be popular among the readers - honestly, tell, which of the living Dwarves you like the most?), Elrond (who is not very active here and is more in the background here), and Arwen. I have to stop at Arwen. She is portrayed as fair, even as an image of Lúthien, Frodo considers her beautiful, and when she looks at Frodo we feel the "Elvishness" shining out from her, yet - yet we don't really learn much about her. In fact, nothing. She does not say a word, and what she is, similarly to what is between her and Aragorn, is only hinted in some way. It is somewhat strange, if nothing else.

And last of all characters, I have to name Pippin at least, for I find this piece of dialogue incredibly funny (the boldened part, mainly):

"Hurray!" cried Pippin, springing up. "Here is our noble cousin! Make way for Frodo, Lord of the Ring!"
"Hush!" said Gandalf from the shadows at the back of the porch. "Evil things do not come into this valley; but all the same we should not name them. The Lord of the Ring is not Frodo, but the master of the Dark Tower of Mordor, whose power is again stretching out over the world! We are sitting in a fortress. Outside it is getting dark."
"Gandalf has been saying many cheerful things like that," said Pippin.

Well, anyway, what's your view on this chapter? What caught your eye there? Or do you have anything to add which you consider interesting, or important?

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

I find the discussion of this chapter, and Rivendell, as a place to "catch one's breath" interesting, especially in light of what Tolkien had to say about the place, in Letter 131 (itself a long and intriguing "chapter" ):

Elrond symbolizes throughout the ancient wisdom, and his House represents Lore -- the preservation in reverent memory of all tradition concerning the good, wise, and beautiful. It is not a scene of action but of reflection. Thus it is a place visited on the way to all deeds, or "adventures". It may prove to be the direct road (as in The Hobbit); but it may be necessary to go there in a totally unexpected course. So necessarily in The Lord of the Rings, having escaped to Elrond from the imminent pursuit of present evil, the hero departs in a wholly new direction: to go and face it at its source.

I find this especially interesting, because it applies to all three of what I have long considered a sort of "heroic triumvirate" of LotR's characters: Frodo, Aragorn, and Gandalf. All three had come to Rivendell fleeing the pursuit of a present evil, and all three would leave it to go and face evil at its source -- but not necessarily the same aspect of evil, nor the same source. That we see Rivendell here through Frodo's eyes is appropriate to the presentation, this being an account of the War through the eyes of Hobbits. Frodo knew from the onset that he was heading for Rivendell, but he had not expected it to be with the Nazgul at his heels, nor, do I think, was he considering the possibility that he might follow a dark road beyond Rivendell. Without this visit along the way, and the opportunity to find rest, reflection, counsel, and healing, Frodo might well have been unable to continue. The respite is necessary not only for the reader, but for the hero -- or heroes, as the case may be.