PJ's Most Disagreable Mistakes (reasons why he is no longer aloud doing The Hobbit)

[The Only Real Estel]

I know this is a thread where we're supposed to list all of PJ's mistakes, but I still have to bring up a few points in his defense (about a year ago, you'd never have caught me doing this):

Originally posted by Boromir88:

What's even more unbelievable ELVES! ELVES FROM LOTHLORIEN! FARTHER AWAY THEN GONDOR! Can make it to Helm's deep in a matter of hours, when it takes Aragorn and company days to cross the plains of Rohan and for all their speed Aragorn was nicknamed "wingfoot."

A matter of hours? The telepathic scene took place before Aragorn had even scene the army of Isengard, so that gives them roughly half a day, still not long-except-the telepathic scene implied (to me) that Galadriel & Elrond were talking at night. Should Elrond have made up his mind that night, the elves would've had all night & all of the next day to march, at the very least.

To continue, how about Theoden's line in Helm's Deep:

"Saruman's arm would have grown long indeed if he thinks he can reach us here." WTH, isn't Helm's Deep closer to Isengard then Edoras? Ya, I can see the rationale, "let's flee from Edoras because Saruman is going to attack us, so let's go even closer to him in Helm's Deep." PJ, should have just stuck with Theoden already willing to go to Helm's Deep and fight.

I don't think Theoden was talking about distances here. I believe he was referring to the strength of the hold, "Saruman's arm would have grown long indeed if he thinks he can reach is in here", is another way to put it.

Oh, and I almost forgot, with Elrond, one minute in Rivendell, and bam there you go in Dunharrow

Well, I know that if PJ would've dwelt on scenes showing Elrond on his way to Dunharrow I'd be giving him so flak for that, not to mention he wanted to keep the identity of the character a secret until he took of his hood. Also, Elrond was on a horse (presumably elven), so I'm sure he could travel as fast as he thougth necessary.

People will walk out of the movie still thinking that if they're in a safe place such as the Shire no harm will ever come to them

A good point, except I don't think anyone is dim-witted enough to think they live in a place as perfect & peaceful as the Shire. Although if you ever here of a place like that, let me know so I can get some flight tickets for next summer's vacation !

Then we have, the Council itself, where these random elves, men, and dwarves just happen to come from nowhere

Elrond opens the Council by mentioning that he "has called them here". Now, you can still wonder how he got the word out so fast, but I'm willing to bet that there were many days spent in Rivendell before the Council took place (see my point about showing Elrond's travel time).

Orcs surround the Fellowship then are scared away by the balrog.
Why not just have the thousands of orcs finish the nine walkers off?

Well, the orcs were scared to death of the Balrog (in the book Weapons & Warfare they suggest that they may have actually worshipped it), so I don't blame them for scattering. But still, I think you've got a legit point there, so I'll agree with you.

I think, did a poor job on many of the little things.

True. Or at least many of the little speech items that seemed out of place, like:

"Lets hunt some orc!" (Aragorn)

"Why doesn't that suprise me?" Legolas)

"She-elf" (Blackrider)

And others too. Naturally, I could point out a lot of little things that I thought he nailed, but I'll restrain myself on that one .


Don't get me wrong, I have issues with parts of the movie just like everyone else. But when I think there is a good explanation for it, I tend to defend it.

[Encaitare]

But its remarkable how, when PJ keeps more to the book and adds to it
his cinematography skills, and generally excellent casting, the result is
far better then his plot "innovations", with a few good exceptions, such as
Sean Bean's Boromir, including his (added by scriptwriters?) Lorien
soliloquy.

Well said, Tuor! I agree; I do know the movies more or less word-for-word, and I love it when I'm rereading the books and I come across a line that was adapted -- or better yet, used directly -- for the movies. Come on, guys. PJ may have done some things that were absoutely heinous, but I still love the movies. They were amazing for what they were, and isn't an imperfect movie better than no movie at all? That's what I think, anyway.

[Boromir88]

Encaitare as I've said these are probably the best movie I have seen from the past 30 years. I'm just pointing out what I don't like about the movie. Not to brag, but I'm not pointing out any of the cuts PJ made, because I thought most cuts he made were ligitimate, besides maybe some of the key characters. I'm pointing out things he changed, for really stuff that I don't understand why he did it.

[Snowdog]

I wont go into PJ's script and who he had play the characters here, but I will pick on a few technical issues that bugged me with the movies which could have been corrected very simply. The time/space scale was very confusing and really didn't give the watcher a sense of the distances and the time it took to cover it. This was prevalent in the Fellowship as Gandalf rides off from the Shire to Minas Tirth, then to isengard. A simple subtitle 'some months later' or such would have helped. Also, in return of the King, Osgoliath was not that close to Minas Tirith. At the least it was 20 miles away and the most 50 miles away across Pelennor Field, and there was no Rammas Echor wall in the movie.

To be fair, where PJ did capture the proper time/space scale was where the Uruk Hai, and Aragorn, Gimli, & Legolas were running across Rohan.

There is more, but I'm at work so I dont have the time to elaborate. (hears sighs of relief from the downers)

[Sapphire_Flame]

Or at least many of the little speech items that seemed out of place, like:

"Lets hunt some orc!" (Aragorn)

"Why doesn't that suprise me?" (Legolas)

"She-elf" (Blackrider)

And others too.

Along with Captain Obvious: "A diversion!" ... Um?

I was absolutely outraged at the absence of the Scouring of the Shire.

*nod nod* I completely agree with you, ninlaith. It provides an appropriate ending for the journey, and the War. Not to mention at appropriate end for Saruman and Wormtongue (Holy Fire-blasting Wizard Staves, Batman!!)

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~

[Boromir88]

Sapphire

It provides an appropriate ending for the journey, and the War.

It also shows the Mental Growth of the hobbits, and their growth mature wise. In the beginning of the book, The Hobbits needed to seek refuge or aid from others, to protect them from "evils" they face, for example Bombadil, Maggot, Faramir (eventhough he's later on) Aragorn, Bree, all provide and protect the Hobbits away from the "evils" that are approaching. Then heading back to the Shire, Gandalf abandons them and says something along the lines "my task is over, this is your task, you must face it..." And here, they don't need help from an "outside" force, they are mature enough, and have "mentally grown" to the point where they can rally the Shire, and combat the ruffians on their own. Something the movie doesn't show well, the mature growth of the hobbits. Also, I believe the physical growth of Merry and Pippin, by drinking the ent draught, symbolizes their growth maturely.

(Holy Fire-blasting Wizard Staves, Batman!!)

All I got to say is LOL HAHAHA! And, Great show, the old ones are the best!

[Encaitare]

Plus, the Scouring shows that even their little hobbity "paradise" is not untouchable. The hardest blow for the hobbits was seeing their home destroyed, but with this part taken out it's just all "La dee da, we saved the world and now we're going back to our perfect home! Go us!" I would have loved to have seen the mallorn tree there, especially. And it provides the proper deaths of Saruman and Grima, not what PJ's got in store! (Check out this thread if you don't mind spoilers.)

Although I must say the hobbits cheekily riding by the old guy sweeping the walkway is priceless.