PJ's Most Disagreable Mistakes (reasons why he is no longer aloud doing The Hobbit)

[Boromir88]

I can't get through the Council of Elrond in FOTR without cracking up laughing. First you have Elrond and his rageful talk about "I hate dwarves they hide in mountains, I hate men they are weak, heck I even hate my own race because I'm a old grumpy elf."

Then we have, the Council itself, where these random elves, men, and dwarves just happen to come from nowhere. Ok in the book the "councillers" are, Gandalf, Frodo, Bilbo, Gimli, Gloin, Legolas, Aragorn, Boromir, Elrond, Erestor, Glorfindel, Galdor (1 wizard, 2 hobbits, 2 dwarves, 2 men, 5 elves). In the movie, they replace Bilbo, with about 5 men, 5, dwarves, and 10 elves, and these people just happen to come no where, and there only point is to sit there, look interested, and nod their heads. Why? Why leave out Bilbo, and put in meaningless people who do nothing?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

While I liked much of the Moria bit there were two poor parts:
1) Moria falling apart, show's what happens when you have too much
deferred maintenance.
2) Orcs surround the Fellowship then are scared away by the balrog.
Why not just have the thousands of orcs finish the nine walkers off?

Of course PJ did it (especially Moria falling down) for his fetish for cinematic
pyrotechnics. One can imagine Gandalf dazzling the orcs with white light and
some sort of cutting through blinded orcs, but the surrounding bit was just
overdone, another example of tampering with the novel leading to an
inferior outcome.

But its remarkable how, when PJ keeps more to the book and adds to it
his cinematography skills, and generally excellent casting, the result is
far better then his plot "innovations", with a few good exceptions, such as
Sean Bean's Boromir, including his (added by scriptwriters?) Lorien
soliloquy.

[Son of Númenor]

There is a seemingly endless supply of criticisms that can be hurled at Jackson's movies - many are fair, many aren't; I personally didn't think many of the changes he made were for the better, but what really bugged me were lines like Legolas's, "Why am I not surprised?" (Fellowship of the Ring EE) and Aragorn's, "Let's hunt some orc!" Far too colloquial - modern movie clichés, really - to be used by characters like those two. PJ & Co., I think, did a poor job on many of the little things.

[Boromir88]

Tuor all I got to say FLAMING FIREBALLS SARUMAN! ROTK EE! lol.

[The Only Real Estel]

I know this is a thread where we're supposed to list all of PJ's mistakes, but I still have to bring up a few points in his defense (about a year ago, you'd never have caught me doing this):

Originally posted by Boromir88:

What's even more unbelievable ELVES! ELVES FROM LOTHLORIEN! FARTHER AWAY THEN GONDOR! Can make it to Helm's deep in a matter of hours, when it takes Aragorn and company days to cross the plains of Rohan and for all their speed Aragorn was nicknamed "wingfoot."

A matter of hours? The telepathic scene took place before Aragorn had even scene the army of Isengard, so that gives them roughly half a day, still not long-except-the telepathic scene implied (to me) that Galadriel & Elrond were talking at night. Should Elrond have made up his mind that night, the elves would've had all night & all of the next day to march, at the very least.

To continue, how about Theoden's line in Helm's Deep:

"Saruman's arm would have grown long indeed if he thinks he can reach us here." WTH, isn't Helm's Deep closer to Isengard then Edoras? Ya, I can see the rationale, "let's flee from Edoras because Saruman is going to attack us, so let's go even closer to him in Helm's Deep." PJ, should have just stuck with Theoden already willing to go to Helm's Deep and fight.

I don't think Theoden was talking about distances here. I believe he was referring to the strength of the hold, "Saruman's arm would have grown long indeed if he thinks he can reach is in here", is another way to put it.

Oh, and I almost forgot, with Elrond, one minute in Rivendell, and bam there you go in Dunharrow

Well, I know that if PJ would've dwelt on scenes showing Elrond on his way to Dunharrow I'd be giving him so flak for that, not to mention he wanted to keep the identity of the character a secret until he took of his hood. Also, Elrond was on a horse (presumably elven), so I'm sure he could travel as fast as he thougth necessary.

People will walk out of the movie still thinking that if they're in a safe place such as the Shire no harm will ever come to them

A good point, except I don't think anyone is dim-witted enough to think they live in a place as perfect & peaceful as the Shire. Although if you ever here of a place like that, let me know so I can get some flight tickets for next summer's vacation !

Then we have, the Council itself, where these random elves, men, and dwarves just happen to come from nowhere

Elrond opens the Council by mentioning that he "has called them here". Now, you can still wonder how he got the word out so fast, but I'm willing to bet that there were many days spent in Rivendell before the Council took place (see my point about showing Elrond's travel time).

Orcs surround the Fellowship then are scared away by the balrog.
Why not just have the thousands of orcs finish the nine walkers off?

Well, the orcs were scared to death of the Balrog (in the book Weapons & Warfare they suggest that they may have actually worshipped it), so I don't blame them for scattering. But still, I think you've got a legit point there, so I'll agree with you.

I think, did a poor job on many of the little things.

True. Or at least many of the little speech items that seemed out of place, like:

"Lets hunt some orc!" (Aragorn)

"Why doesn't that suprise me?" Legolas)

"She-elf" (Blackrider)

And others too. Naturally, I could point out a lot of little things that I thought he nailed, but I'll restrain myself on that one .


Don't get me wrong, I have issues with parts of the movie just like everyone else. But when I think there is a good explanation for it, I tend to defend it.

[Encaitare]

But its remarkable how, when PJ keeps more to the book and adds to it
his cinematography skills, and generally excellent casting, the result is
far better then his plot "innovations", with a few good exceptions, such as
Sean Bean's Boromir, including his (added by scriptwriters?) Lorien
soliloquy.

Well said, Tuor! I agree; I do know the movies more or less word-for-word, and I love it when I'm rereading the books and I come across a line that was adapted -- or better yet, used directly -- for the movies. Come on, guys. PJ may have done some things that were absoutely heinous, but I still love the movies. They were amazing for what they were, and isn't an imperfect movie better than no movie at all? That's what I think, anyway.

[Boromir88]

Encaitare as I've said these are probably the best movie I have seen from the past 30 years. I'm just pointing out what I don't like about the movie. Not to brag, but I'm not pointing out any of the cuts PJ made, because I thought most cuts he made were ligitimate, besides maybe some of the key characters. I'm pointing out things he changed, for really stuff that I don't understand why he did it.