PJ's Most Disagreable Mistakes (reasons why he is no longer aloud doing The Hobbit)

[Evisse the Blue]

Hang on a second, PJ isn't doing The Hobbit anymore??

On topic: I saw War and Peace a few days ago (the orginal Russian version), whom everyone praised, and indeed everything was exactly how I imagined it, (characters, scenes, settings), almost to the point of boredom. It's like I was reading the book again, this time with a little more vivid mental pictures. War and Peace is one of my favourite books ever, and I was dissapointed that the movie stuck by the book. Hmm, I'm still pondering on that, but anyway, in light of this, I've come to appreciate LOTR, even with all its changes and mistakes even more. It's sure giving us something to talk about, if nothing else.

[Boromir88]

StarJewel and Encaitare:

Encaitare is right...non-book fans probably would not have enjoyed a longer movie than 3.5 hours.

Unless if that "inclusion" of the Scouring had Legolas in it some way (which it doesn't) then yes, I don't see non-book readers liking an extra 30 minutes-hr.

My most disagreeable thing with PJ is more of an exclusion, rather then a mistake he made. Eomer, now come on PJ give Eomer some love. I mean Rohan Soldier #35 get's more screen time then Eomer. It's like PJ just told Mr. Urban to stand behind a pole while filming. I don't know about you but Eomer seemed to me like an important part to LOTR, and an important part to Aragorn becoming king (as is being discussed in another thread, which I can't remember right now).

I'm dissappointed the PJ had to have elves at helm's deep and the dead army at Minas Tirith. The whole point of LOTR was the rise of men, the strength of men growing and other races fading away, didn't seem like that in the movies. PJ made it seem without elves, the men at helm's deep would have lost, and without the dead army the men of Minas Tirith would have lost.

Lastly, I want to see the EE so badly, because it has all sorts of added book scenes that I hope to enjoy. But, yes, if Saruman shoots fireballs out of his staff I will close my eyes.

Evisse:

Hmm, I'm still pondering on that, but anyway, in light of this, I've come to appreciate LOTR, even with all its changes and mistakes even more. It's sure giving us something to talk about, if nothing else.

Evisse, yes I agree, despite all my grumbles of what PJ could have done differently, I don't picture a director doing as good of a job as he did. Not even Tolkien (since I'm not too sure about Tolkien's directing skills). I would have to say actually my favorite "recent" movie maybe of the past 30 yrs is LOTR.

[Meela]

I do happen to enjoy reading the books, but I haven't always liked them. But I would gladly sit through an extra five hours of the movies if necessary.

PJ made it seem without elves, the men at helm's deep would have lost, and without the dead army the men of Minas Tirith would have lost.

I can see the Elves point, but I never thought that about the battle at Minas Tirith. It was only towards the end that the Dead Army arrived, and all they did was pick off the stragglers. It was actually the Rohirrim who seemed to save the day, aka. fellow men.

I would have liked to have seen the Scouring of the Shire, but personally I'm not a big fan of the Hobbits. I'd rather the Houses of Healing were included or extra battle time given. I preferred to get straight to the action, and I felt the time with the Hobbits dragged a little, although I could see it was essential to the story.
But then the same can be said about the Houses of Healing, causing the ending to drag. So I'm disappointed, but not upset that it was excluded in the theater.

As much as I wanted to see Tom Bombadil out of pure interest, I'm glad the chapters were cut out completely. It's irrelevant to the central story, and it would result in a whole movie consisting of the Hobbits' journey, which I'm sure even some book fans would find a little tiresome towards the end.

[Sapphire_Flame]

Unless if that "inclusion" of the Scouring had Legolas in it some way (which it doesn't) then yes, I don't see non-book readers liking an extra 30 minutes-hr.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Boromir88.

Although I was disappointed at some of the exclusions (the 'Downs, Scouring) and insertions (Osgiliath, more Arwen) that PJ implemented, I was pleased with the movies overall, and would be in no way averse to him directing The Hobbit. I realize that some things may be cut (possibly Beorn...), and some things may be added (seeing Legolas in Mirkwood... o.O), but that he will do a very good job nonetheless. My one insistance is that they do a good job with Smaug (my favourite character ^ ^).

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Meela

"I can see the Elves point, but I never thought that about the battle at Minas Tirith. It was only towards the end that the Dead Army arrived, and all they did was pick off the stragglers. It was actually the Rohirrim who seemed to save the day, aka. fellow men."
---------------------------------------
I tend to disagree. The way I saw it in the movie the Army of the Dead
blew away the bad guys. The only importance of the Rohirrim seemed to be
to buy a little time until the AotD arrived. You can argue that it was PJ and the
girls way of keeping partially true to the book: Gondor threatened, Rohirrim
charges but gets stalled, Aragorn with South Gondor levies turning the tide.
But consider movie Gimli's comment about keeping the AotD around. I think
PJ just wanted some more special effects with the green slime, but it did
cheapen the point of the Rohirrim charging. Also, why in the world didn't he
have the Rohirrim charge in the dark, then have the sun come out around
Theoden, as in the book?

His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed. For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City.

(That would have been a great visual moment).

But worst bits in the movies:
FOTR--- I can see why XenaArwen took over for Glorfindel, but it was dumb to
replace Frodo saying:

By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair you shall have neither the ring nor me!

with Arwen's "If you want......."
TTT---Ents saying no to attacking Saruman and then Merry/Pippin's weak
ploy to get him to isengard.
ROTK---BUt the # 1 stuuuuuupid move by PJ:
Gandalf beating up the Steward of Gondor as the Steward's elite guard
are picking their teeth! Not only unbelievable, but absurdly not
only out of character for Gandalf but expressly against directives to the
Istari on how to behave towards the people of Middle-earth:

...this the Valar did, desiring to amend the errors of old, especially that they had attempted to guard and seclude the Elder by their own might and glory fully revealed; whereas now their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men or Elves by open display of power, but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavour to dominate and corrupt.

UT

[Boromir88]

Tuor I completely forgot about the Gandalf beating up Denethor moments. Oh jeez, I have to agree that was more dissapointing then basically sticking Eomer behind a pole in the movies. Not only did Gandalf break rules by knocking around the Steward, but also, when Gandalf busted in with Shadowfax on Denethor burning himself, horses weren't allowed there.

So, let me get this straight, Beregond faces trial for following his heart and committing treason, but Gandalf gets away with trespassing and assault? Good job Tuor on pointing that out, that is by far the worst of all of PJ's mistakes.

[NightKnight]

I think the worst things in RotK were the removals of most of my favorite characters: Beregond, Bergil, Imrahil, Elladan and Elrohir.
I also think there is way too much Arwen (she's very sexy though ), and that Haldir is taking way too much place. And of course the geocraphical misses (Legolas: "The orcs are turning northeast to Isengard" and Gondor Soldier: "The orcs have taken the eastern shore" (in Osgiliath)).

[The Only Real Estel]

I found the vicious ravaging suffered by Faramir to be highly off-putting. The sequence going to Osgiliath was particularly egregious

True, but the EE helped to salvage a lot of his character. Not that I'm excusing the 'real' movie Faramir, though.

Hang on a second, PJ isn't doing The Hobbit anymore??

Just a matter of opinion, don't worry.

Tuor I completely forgot about the Gandalf beating up Denethor moments. Oh jeez, I have to agree that was more dissapointing then basically sticking Eomer behind a pole in the movies. Not only did Gandalf break rules by knocking around the Steward, but also, when Gandalf busted in with Shadowfax on Denethor burning himself, horses weren't allowed there.

I didn't especially like Gandalf beating Denethor either, although PJ's considerably-less noble-&-more wimpy Denethor deserved the beating.
But Gandalf riding a horse in there against the rules doesn't bother me nearly as much. Since the rule never even came close to being touched upon, I don't mind PJ having Shadowfax in there. I did mind the way that Gandalf seemed to kill Denethor, knocking him back onto the fire. But the horse rule seemed like a rather small nuance to me.

PJ made it seem without elves, the men at helm's deep would have lost, and without the dead army the men of Minas Tirith would have lost

Well, according to PJ's version it would've been. A few hundred men (& presumably no outstanding archers among them, other than Aragorn & Legolas) wouldn't lhave asted nearly long enough for Eomer/Gandalf to come to the rescue of anything but rubble & smoke.


On the Dead Army: It did seem to me that they pretty much saved the day, regardless of the few Oliphaunts that the Rohirrim took down towards the arrival of the Army, they were still getting whipped pretty badly. But then the Dead Army swooped down & easily wiped out everything in its path...I wish PJ would've stuck with the dead only helping capture the ships, but I guess he thought he needed a way to wrap up the 1st battle ultra-fast.