New Tolkien Letter discovered - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**The Saucepan Man** · 09-09-2004, 01:20 PM

Quote:

They aren't automatically going to sell them.

Well, they always say that they are giving the value for insurance purposes. But you can often see the owner's face light up (or drop, depending on the amount) when they are told the value ...

Evisse the Blue · 09-09-2004, 03:08 PM

I was going to mention 'Possession', too, indeed, that was a lovely book...
So this letter will reveal whether or not there could have been a different ending and why...among other things of course...What if it contains a stunning revelation that would make us look at Middle Earth in a different way?

Oh dear, the agony of it... *bites knuckles*
All that we have to do now is dispatch one of us as a representative of the Barrow Downs on a hunt to get that item.

mark12_30 · 09-09-2004, 08:22 PM

There's a diary???

Beren87 · 09-10-2004, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12_30

There's a diary???

Indeed, he started a diary on New Year's Day, 1919. It was started in english, but he would randomly change languages (invented) throughout. Which makes reading it difficult, apparently. He started writing it right about the middle of the time when he was writing "The Book of Lost Tales" (FoG, especially). It is assumed to include quite some information regarding such writings, he continued it for quite some time, and it was analyzed by Christopher for HoME and by Carpenter in writing his biography.

Mithalwen · 09-10-2004, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Well, they always say that they are giving the value for insurance purposes. But you can often see the owner's face light up (or drop, depending on the amount) when they are told the value ...

True but you also see people genuinely torn when they find out that something they have loved for years is so valuable that they can't justify keeping it ... or it will cause family squabbles. I mean it turned out that the item I chose as a memento from my grandmother's house was worth £150 pounds and the one my sister chose was worth £4000. I wasn't bothered because I still prefer my choice and wouldn't sell it.... but if it had been the other way around..... well my sibling miffed is not a pretty sight

Unfortunately the only letter I from a famous person I have an interest in is from Florence Nightingale, which I would be quite happy to pass to the relevant archive rather than sell because I think it belongs where it can be accessed by all those interested. But it is easy for me to say that, because I am NOT interested. If it were a letter from Tolkien... I have a horrid feeling I might become as possessive as Gollum with the ring. "Mine... my precioussssssssssssss"

Child of the 7th Age · 09-11-2004, 09:25 PM

I am a haunter of e-bay. One of the things that constantly surprises me is how often "new" Tolkien letters turn up there. They are generally advertised by what looks like reputable dealers in rare books. Pictures are usually given of the letters and often you can read/print out the text (which I often do).

Most of the letters are brief replies, but once or twice I have seen something where the professor actually commented on something. I can remember one where he discussed that he had become "tired" of hobbits and didn't intend to write anything more of that type.

How can you tell if these missives are real? I suppose you would have to inquire into their provenance and know something about authenticating signatures. Since all of these letters go for a great deal more than I could afford, I have never inquired further. Yet it does make me wonder: if these examples turn up regularly on e-bay, how much more is in private hands that we know nothing about -- people's attics as well as dealers' inventory.

davem · 09-12-2004, 12:17 AM

Well, I think the only letters we have in the published collection are ones which Tolkien kept the copies of his replies for, or ones he began but didn't send, so one could assume that he possibly sent many more than we have.

Anyone in the UK who's interested in seeing the letter can watch the Antiques Roadshow tonight, which apparently contains the incident.

Mithalwen · 09-12-2004, 11:08 AM

I would think it quite likely that there are many letter out there given that Tolkien was a child of the letter writing age - yes there was a time when the post was a reliable and swift form of communication! Many people do routinely keep letters and many more would keep one from someone of significance. Of course it doesn't follow that many of these letters would have any great significance but I am sure many people would like such a personal thing as a handwritten letter even if it were querying a gas bill!

Orominuialwen · 09-12-2004, 12:45 PM

Not everybody who takes something to Antiques Roadshow is going to sell it. When the show (the US version) came to where I live, my family took a quilt we have that was made for my great grandmother when she was born, but we had no intention of selling it, even if it turned out to be very valuable. We were just curious to see what sort of thing we owned.

davem · 09-12-2004, 01:29 PM

Well the episode of Antiques Roadshow has just aired. It was a difficult job, but having taped it & looked at it frame by frame, I could make out a good part of the first side of the letter. It was accompanied by a typed slip, which contains an apology for the delay in sending it - from the address it seems he wrote it on July 26th, but didn’t post it till Sept 22nd(!)

On the slip there seems to be a reference to his ‘niggling’ - & he even tells the recipient about his story Leaf by Niggle ‘published in the Dublin Review of Jan 1945.

The letter seems to be the original of the one to Miss J Burn (no 191) of which we only have a draft in the book.

The address is (illegible - to me - word)

Quote:

I don’t know what city(?)! Found in a pile - 22 Sept 1956
July 26th 1956

Dear Miss Burn

Thankyou for your most kind & appreciative letter. I have not been able to answer before as I have been away. I could not explain how the story grew in anyhing less tahn autobiography.

As for Frodo’s failure - it was absolute & complete & inevitable. If you reconsider all that is said about the Ring you will see that it was simply impossible that he should voluntarily surrender or resolve to damage it let alone destroy it at the last.

That his Quest was ‘humanly speaking’ altogether vain & doomed to disaster.. quite apart from the pysical dangers & obstacles...really apparent from the beginning.The good cause was in fact saved by pity & forgiveness...(something) against all (evidence? endurance?) Gandalf foresaw this - see vol 1 pp 68-69

09-09-2004, 03:08 PM	#2
Evisse the Blue Brightness of a Blade Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: wherever I may roam Posts: 2,685	I was going to mention 'Possession', too, indeed, that was a lovely book... So this letter will reveal whether or not there could have been a different ending and why...among other things of course...What if it contains a stunning revelation that would make us look at Middle Earth in a different way? Oh dear, the agony of it... bites knuckles All that we have to do now is dispatch one of us as a representative of the Barrow Downs on a hunt to get that item. __________________ And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass.

09-09-2004, 08:22 PM	#3
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	There's a *diary*??? __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

09-11-2004, 09:25 PM	#6
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	I am a haunter of e-bay. One of the things that constantly surprises me is how often "new" Tolkien letters turn up there. They are generally advertised by what looks like reputable dealers in rare books. Pictures are usually given of the letters and often you can read/print out the text (which I often do). Most of the letters are brief replies, but once or twice I have seen something where the professor actually commented on something. I can remember one where he discussed that he had become "tired" of hobbits and didn't intend to write anything more of that type. How can you tell if these missives are real? I suppose you would have to inquire into their provenance and know something about authenticating signatures. Since all of these letters go for a great deal more than I could afford, I have never inquired further. Yet it does make me wonder: if these examples turn up regularly on e-bay, how much more is in private hands that we know nothing about -- people's attics as well as dealers' inventory. __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

09-12-2004, 12:17 AM	#7
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Well, I think the only letters we have in the published collection are ones which Tolkien kept the copies of his replies for, or ones he began but didn't send, so one could assume that he possibly sent many more than we have. Anyone in the UK who's interested in seeing the letter can watch the Antiques Roadshow tonight, which apparently contains the incident. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

09-12-2004, 11:08 AM	#8
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I would think it quite likely that there are many letter out there given that Tolkien was a child of the letter writing age - yes there was a time when the post was a reliable and swift form of communication! Many people do routinely keep letters and many more would keep one from someone of significance. Of course it doesn't follow that many of these letters would have any great significance but I am sure many people would like such a personal thing as a handwritten letter even if it were querying a gas bill! __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

09-12-2004, 12:45 PM	#9
Orominuialwen Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: Umbar, but before the corsairs took over. (Ave Maria University, FL, USA) Posts: 632	Not everybody who takes something to Antiques Roadshow is going to sell it. When the show (the US version) came to where I live, my family took a quilt we have that was made for my great grandmother when she was born, but we had no intention of selling it, even if it turned out to be very valuable. We were just curious to see what sort of thing we owned. __________________ Gone for lentSeeyou at Easter! (And on Sundays too, maybe.)