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Old 08-27-2004, 02:20 AM   #1
davem
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
A couple of other things struck me in this chapter - one: Frodo having to accustom himself to being suspicious of others. He's left a world where most of those around him weren't any kind of threat, they were people he'd grown up around, who he knew well for the most part. The threat came from strangers, & they were few & far between. Now he's entered a world where almost everyone is a stranger, & a potential mortal enemy - even getting up in a pub & singing a song can lead to disaster. He must from now on be suspicious of everyone he meets, & that's not his nature. Its another step on the road to his corruption by the Ring. He can't retain his innocence because the Ring is too dangerous. Another example of how the Ring works subtly to corrupt anyone who possesses it.

Two: the first appearance of the 'Black Breath' (or Black Shadow). Merry here gets his first experience of it - the next will be on Pelennor Fields. The presence of evil draws him towards it, & then the Black Breath causes him to fall into an evil dream (why does he dream of falling into 'deep water', I wonder?). The dream induced by the Black Breath produces evil dreams & ultimately death, but do the Nazgul actually 'breathe' out a poison onto their victims, or is it something else, a magical aura which surrounds them? So, evil draws the individual to it, swallows them up in a nightmare & finally takes their life, but why is evil seductive in that way:what is Tolkien saying? Its also interesting that at the end of the Barrow Downs chapter its Merry who had the strange dream of having been slain by the men of Carn Dum, servants of the Witch King - he does seem destined to have run ins with him, though why Merry is so drawn to this source of evil is another question.
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Old 08-27-2004, 04:55 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle
But that is enough of such silliness. End of swoon. Return to more sensible posts.
But sir, Aragorn deserves all the swooning he can get! As long as someone explains the reason for swooning...but is that even called swooning at all? Anyway...

davem, I believe the Black Breath is merely the aura of evil surrounding the Nazgul, which comes from within them (kind of like "what is in the heart spills out" or something like that). This can be proven by the infliction of so many soldiers in the Battle of the Pelennor...oops. *curtsies to Esty*

And evil indeed works similar to the way the Black Breath does. You may have no intention nor desire of being entangled with it, but as long as you are exposed to evil, you will inevitably be caught up, but not necessarily imprisoned, within it.
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Old 08-27-2004, 05:26 AM   #3
Fordim Hedgethistle
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The Black Breath is indeed an effective way for Tolkien to manifest the 'power' or effect of evil -- or, rather, his view of evil. A breath is something that has an effect, one can feel it, but it has no substance of its own. A breath is an effect (of one person blowing on another) and not a thing in and off itself. Breath is also germaine to life and living, so the Black Breath would seem to be something that is contrary to life, but not some kind of indepedent (Manichean?) opposite to life -- it's not death, but deathly. Like the Nazgul themselves who are caught in the middle realm, "neither living nor dead" (if I might be allowed to quote movie-Aragorn). This perhaps points the way toward an understanding of the dreams Merry has -- the effect of the Nazgul (and the Wights) is a death-like suspension in a dream realm. The Black Breath cannot rob one of life (the "divine spark"?) it can only overwhelm one with a sleep. This is, of course, on the 'magical' or 'spiritual' level that they seem to be operating -- the Black Riders can easily kill somone with their sword, but that's a physical death, not a death of the spirit.

One final note that's just come to me as I review the chapter. There's an interesting way in which Butterbur, of all people, is being connected to Treebeard!! Bear with me:

When Butterbur finally remembers the letter he says:

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But now I don't know what he'll have to say to me, if I see him again: turn all my ale sour or me into a block of wood, I shouldn't wonder. He's a bit hasty.
And in Gandalf's letter, as has already been alluded to in the thread, he refers to the innkeeper as

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A worthy man, but his memory is like a lumber-room.
One last connection, slender though it might be (like a willow branch) is the absence of any Mrs. Butterbur. As far as I can recall, this is the only house-with-fire-light in the book in which there is not a female presence. Like the ents without their entwives, Butterbur lacks the 'balance' of the feminine?

Oh! And one more think just popped into my head. It's here at the Pony that Aragorn is hoping to meet Gandalf but does not, and he's come here in order to try and find and protect the hobbits. It's in Fangorn that Aragorn meets Gandalf when he does not expect to, and he goes to Fangorn in the first place to find and protect the hobbits!

Butterbur as some kind of human/comic form of an Ent? He and Treebeard do seem to 'bracket' Aragorn's journey in a sense, or, at least, an important stage of his journey. Here in Butterbur's realm he takes up the task of aiding the Ring Bearer, and in Treebeard's realm he sets that task aside. It seems that in some way Aragorn is himself 'moving' (not growing, he is already perfect!) from Butterbur to Treebeard.

Oh oh oh! Butterbur has a terrible memory -- he remembers nothing, including the lore that would tell him who Strider really is. He lacks the abilty to give Aragorn the recognition that he deserves. Treebeard's memory on the other hand. . .enough said. Of course, Aragorn and Treebeard do not actually meet in Fangorn (getting ahead of myself again, sorry) perhaps implying that Aragorn is moving into a time/realm when he will be remembered, but not quite yet? Must look up the part when Treebeard finally does greet Aragorn. . .
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Old 08-27-2004, 05:36 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle
One last connection, slender though it might be (like a willow branch) is the absence of any Mrs. Butterbur. As far as I can recall, this is the only house-with-fire-light in the book in which there is not a female presence. Like the ents without their entwives, Butterbur lacks the 'balance' of the feminine?
Senseless as this might be, the absence of Mrs. Butterbur may be one of the reasons why I hardly found the Inn comforting. There is always a certain comfort that the presence of a female offers, as we can feel at Tom Bombadil's house, or in Rivendell, or in Lothlorien.
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Old 08-27-2004, 05:51 AM   #5
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Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Interesting thoughts on the Inn/Barliman/Gandalf/Aragorn, Fordim! There's a connection at the end of the story to which I'd like to point only briefly, but as it's a bookend type reference, it does deserve mentioning here. Gandalf accompanies the Hobbits to the Pony but leaves them after that. As his failure to meet them there sparks the beginning of their growth to independence, his leaving them to take care of the Scouring alone marks the reached goal of their growth!
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Old 08-27-2004, 09:24 AM   #6
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As far as I can recall, this is the only house-with-fire-light in the book in which there is not a female presence.
But what about Bag End? Bilbo and Frodo are both lifelong bachelors. The only woman associated with Bag End is Lobelia, and she doesn't exactly inspire feelings of comfort and security.
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Old 08-27-2004, 09:38 AM   #7
Fordim Hedgethistle
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Good point! But there is one other female character associated with Bag End: Rosie! The whole point and purpose of Sam's journey is to bring it about that he and Rosie literally "end up" together in Bag End ("Well. . .I'm back"). From the point of view of the hobbits and the Shire, the whole point of the War of the Ring is to 'redeem' Bag End from its bachelor existence to a properly domestic one.
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