LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 09 - At the Sign of the Prancing Pony

[Mithalwen]

Fordim's point about the absence of women is interesting; I have often wondered in the books generally whether one can assume when no women are mentioned that no women are present.. In this case I think the answer probably is yes ... I can remember even in my not-so-distant childhood most pubs having "saloons" that were effectively men only as well as mixed lounge bars -and my mother may have been a little old fashioned but I was taught that " a lady did not go into a bar alone" ( and even now I dislike being the first to arrive if I am meeting friends in a pub............) . At the Party women are mentioned and at Minas Tirith and ROhan they are evacuated .... but at the Feast at Rivendell ... it seems that Arwen was the only woman there .... and surely that can't be the case ..... when Frodo says "There was one lady.." does he mean one lady marked out for special rank by her seating ... or that she was the only woman? At Lorien no woman other than Galadriel is mentioned though her maidens are referred to.. I suppose it does increase the impact of the three significant women in the story .... but it makes it seem a superficially unbalanced world ....
but then I suppose Tolkien lived in a very male world so it may not have occurred to him it was odd....!!!

[Lhunardawen]

For some reason unknown, I do not find inns any comforting. And this has been carried on as I read this chapter. Yes, Barliman Butterbur might have been a gracious and customer-friendly innkeeper, but there's something in the way that he talks so much and tends to forget things that scared me. We see a glimpse of this forgetfulness in the line that mentions him hesitating for a moment after hearing Frodo introduce himself as Underhill, as if there is something he has to do in connection with the name (my apologies, I haven't the book).

The unfamiliarity with Breelanders, particularly the Big Folk, adds to this aura of discomfort. As I read, I pictured myself being one of the hobbits, and the description of the Big Folk scared me, not just because of their height. Add to that the lurking thought of the Ringwraiths being around.

Ironically (as we will find out in the next chapter), Strider is also a source of fear. At first we see him as someone who probably knows more about these hobbits than the others in the Inn, in the way he looks at them. And since our only source of information about him in this chapter is the one given by Butterbur (which the people around most likely agree with), there is every reason for Frodo to be on his guard...

...but, unfortunately, he was not. His song has somehow lightened the mood, but the accident has made his position even worse. Now he has a growing suspicion of darkness on the only person he is most likely to trust other than his companions. What a fright this chapter must have been for poor Frodo.

I seem to have focused too much on the negative...

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Strider is also a source of fear.

I think that with this Tolkien was trying to build up an air of suspicion, no one is quite sure who he is. However, as is found in the chapter "Homeward bound" the people of Bree did not really understand what it was the rangers actually did. So like many things, it is to make the ultimate change at the end slightly more dramatic, In that the people of Bree are happy in a way that the rangers have left, but then realise what it was that they were doing, keeping the ruffians out of trouble. I think that this is another message of Tolkein's, although its a corny one, I believe this is a slight hint of "Don't judge a book by its cover" a lot a like to the Hobbits often being overlooked and seen as unimportant, or Gandalf being seen as a storm crow and a deceiver, but ultimately they are the movers of great things in the story.

Well that's what I thought anyway.

[Guinevere]

What strikes me at second reading is that the "big folk" of Bree are really rather similar to the Hobbits... that's probably why they can live together so well. They are content with their lives in Bree and rather suspicious of anything unknown . Well, the only Bree men we really get to know are Barliman Butterbur (very hobbitlike, I think) and Bill Ferny (evil, but in a small, mean way)
I remember well, how intrigued I was at the first reading by the description of Strider. (btw the first sight of Strider in the movie is exactly like that: one sees only the gleam of his eyes from under the hood.)
Something else which makes me wonder now is the statement at the beginning of the chapter that "no other Men had settled dwellings so far west" and the description of the rangers as "mysterious wanderers" without a dwelling apparently. But some of them, at least, must have had wives and children, and all of them had parents: I wonder where those lived ? Where were Aragorn's parents living before his father died? Whither did Gilraen retire when she left Rivendell ? Is it nowhere mentioned, I wonder ?

And though I'm not from an English-spoken country I was delighted to recognize "Hi diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle" in Frodo's song. Btw , some people in a German Forum asked me in earnest if that nursery rhyme really had its origin in the LotR ! I think it's typical for Tolkien that he manages to make us think that ! ( Like "Atalantë" and "Avalonnë")
As HerenIstarion so rightly pointed out: the lore becomes folklore...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, what's this - I was wondering whether we skipped a chapter or something. Surely you don't mean there is nothing interesting about this chapter? At least for myself I could speak about quite a lot of things.

First, the beginning. I'm going to skip the current things and focus on the historical information. I find it very interesting that we are very plainly told that the Breelanders lived there already in the First Age. Well, why not, it's plausible and even logical, but still, it's interesting to actually fully realise it. Isn't it strange? Somewhat, this implies that Bree itself (of course in some different state) is a settlement far, far older than let's say Osgiliath, Barad-Dur, Minas Tirith, Umbar or Isengard (about such young places like Dale or Edoras I don't even speak). Maybe, who knows, even older than all the human settlements in Beleriand. Fascinating idea, isn't it? Beren and Túrin are running around Beleriand and performing their great deeds, but behind the mountains, the Breelanders still reside and wait. And wait. And wait. As the classic says, "the villagers won".

Also, there is one interesting piece of information that breaks one common stereotypical thought about the Hobbits. It's a slight remark, although it speaks very plain towards a reader.

There were probably many more Outsiders scattered about in the West of the World in those days than the people of the Shire imagined. Some, doubtless, were no better than tramps, ready to dig a hole in any bank and stay only as long as it suited them.

"Than the people of the Shire imagined" - and I could add "than most of the Tolkien fans are used to imagine". Normally, when someone says "Hobbits" to us, we think about the Shire and a little branch in Bree and its neigbouring villages. But here we are confronted with a view of many other Hobbits who live around there in the wilderness of ancient Arnor. Something that seems (at least to me) more like a desperate construction to back-up a crazy fanfiction or a bad RPG is actually true and put forward by the author himself. Interesting how easily one can slip into stereotypical thinking, eh?

Concerning Harry Goatleaf. He is the first character of the Breelanders the four travelers confront. He is just a minor character, but he has some depth - simlar to Fatty Bolger and all these folks who are left behind to emerge later. But in RotK we learn how he changes. I wonder - what was his stance now, at this time? Because I think him quite genuine and all right at this time. Or was he already doing something, like, what, spying for Saruman? Or was this just the time when he was "corrupted" - did the Black Riders simply scare him that much? I find his life story a very interesting question and if I were to be inspired by Esty, who wrote her fanfic about Folco Boffin, I would write about Harry Goatleaf. Maybe his story was tragic? Being afraid, maybe even of the loss of some who were close to him, he chose betrayal? A Gorlim of the Third Age?

Barliman Butterbur mentions Dwarves who are going West that just arrived this evening. And they indeed are sitting down there. But there is nothing else about them. Why? Wouldn't it be nice for the hobbits to, let's say, have a little chat with the Dwarves? And are the Dwarves actually ever mentioned there after that? I am not aware of it. When the nightly attack comes, the Southerners are concerned about the loss of their horses, but not a single remark about the Dwarves being angry - and a Dwarf could surely become angry and demand the innkeeper to pay for the loss - about losting their ponies, which they likely would have (as we know from Thorin&co.'s case).
And concerning the Dwarves' origin - I think they probably were some folks from Erebor or the Iron Hills traveling to the Blue Mountains, as that's the only logical explanation I can come up with. However, if anyone has any other ideas, I am listening.

A personal remark: The welcome the Hobbits get from Butterbur and Nob always make me wish to be there and to eat with them. However dramatic the circumstances are, the Prancing Pony is still a piece of home, and it's also the last one for a long time to come.

Merry is once again great in this chapter. I have strong sympathy for him here, as well as in the following chapter. He decides not to go down ("too stuffy") and goes for a nice evening walk, and yet he experiences probably the coolest thing of all of them (coolest = from the silly view of the person who is all excited about adventure. That's not meant to say that Merry is, that's meant to say that I'd be ). More about this in my thoughts to the next chapter.

And, the last thing. This chapter is full of tension of anticipation, there are things like the mysterious shadowy figure that jumped over the gate, strange remarks from Harry, Strider and Butterbur that remain unexplained, and the chapter itself ends with Frodo's appointment of two private meetings - and the one with Butterbur is by nature even more curious than the one with Strider, because, what can such a figure like the jovial innkeeper have to say to Frodo? Not speaking at all about the three men who left the room after Frodo's disappearance. In short, if there is anything close to the genre of a detective story in LotR, it is this chapter.

And a P.S. about Hey Diddle Diddle. I must have heard the song first about ten years ago (while I read LotR still quite a long time before that), and only after several years I actually once, listening to it, started to wonder whether it - or some modification of it - is not what Tolkien means by the words that some of it is remembered until today. But when did I really discover that? Just now on this thread, of course. But I expected to find it.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Oops! It's a crazy week, I guess; I simply skipped posting about this chapter, having read it and gone on to the next one. I will post my thoughts later, when I can go back to remind myself of them. Thanks, Legate, for not following my example and for posting to this thread!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Let me add just one interesting thought that is pointed out in the Reader's Companion: The "squint-eyed ill-favoured fellow" says, 'If room isn't found for them, they'll find it for themselves.' This statement is eerily similar to the German idea of Lebensraum ('living space'), which was one of the reasons for the Second World War. We don't know, of course, where people felt their country was overly crowded in Middle-earth, but someone must have felt the need to spread out and take over other areas.