ME's advantages

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I was waiting for one sensible person to swing the thread over!

However, there are people in our world who live in just such conditions. The people who live their lives in the jungles of South America do not know what they're 'missing', why would they be sad that they have no running water or whatever. They have never experienced anything other than their own lives.

So it is true that if we were suddenly lobbed into Middle-earth we'd be slightly off balance and more than a little queasy, but that's not really how I imagined the original question.

And as for intolerance, rimbaud, I have had too many bad experiences in this world to be worried about the intolerance of Middle-earth. (My pessimism really shines through in these threads!)

[haltred]

Middle Earth values much that this earth has forgotten about honour , decencey ,loyalty to others. OK in some ways it would be harder life than we have here and now >BUT then no harder than say our great great grandparents . And some of the ME problems, Sauron for instance are unique well maybe not if one looks at some of the villians of the 20th century.

[Encaitare]

Yes, it would be a harder life, but it's the dignity and sense of pride and ancientry which we just seem to lack nowadays. I'm a nature-lover, and it just makes me sad to see the trees gradually disappearing all over the place so we can make office buildings. I currently live in suburbia and there are parks and trees and things but in time it'll all be industrialized, and I have a sneaking suspicion I'm going to move somewhere more rural at some point in my life. Then again, I love the city, so I guess I can go both ways.

It has no racism

Actually, Middle-earth has got its share of racism... look at the Elves/Dwarves, Rohirrim/Dunlendings, Orcs/Men and Elves.

[Imladris]

I think that many people forget (as Rimbaud so accurately pointed out) that Middle Earth isn't as....romantic, as we like to think.

People have said that Middle Earth doesn't have as many problems as the real world. That they have nobility, that they love nature, etc, and it really makes it seem as if this civilization is going to the dogs! (Technically it is, of course, but I believe that everything goes downwards and that we're just closer to the end as it were than in Middle Earth's time.)

See, the thing is is that Middle Earth is the real world (Tolkien wrote it as a mythology) so it has its real problems. The problem of survival, and others that we don't know about because Tolkien didn't go into them.

What about the problems of caste? Remember Sam and calling Frodo sir? Tolkien wrote him as a servant, as an unequal. Of course the relationship gradually changed but that still doesn't change the thinking of inequality.

Also what about the Sackville Bagginses? One still had the irate, selfish, thieving neighbours.

There was even corruption within the governments (Denethor not wanting to give the throne to Elessar and Grima and Theoden). So it wasn't all sunshine and roses.

But there is nobility in this era too. Washington, Joan of Arc, every time a person gives up his own needs/ life for another. That is still alive here. The only reason it's more rampant in Tolkien's legendarium is because he wrote about that one segment of history. We don't hear about the every day stuff.

I guess what I'm saying is that Middle Earth is not problem free. Maybe there's not the problem of pollution etc, but it has its own problems that we'd gripe about as well.

[Rimbaud]

And neither does this fictional world have a lock on nobility, either. Today, right now, against forces more powerful and unaccountable than could have been imagined in such a world as ME, there are people fighting hard, making sacrifices, being noble.

Organisations like Amnesty, Médecins Sans Frontières, the Red Cross and countless aid organisations are full of selfless, noble people, who work against incredible odds to alleviate suffering and improve conditions the world over. These organisations are not perfect and there are some who work for them who are not as selfless as others (and there are aid organisations for whom hypocrites is too weak a term), of course, but the point remains. Even now, in Sudan, in Afghanistan, in the very country you live in now, people are making sacrifices for others.

Every time you help someone selflessly, every time you lend a part of yourself to aid another, nobility is there. Do not deny the inhabitants of the real world their very real dignity, when so many struggle everyday against corrupt forces to improve life for all. If you feel the world you live in is so bereft of human decency and nobilty, then make steps to change it. Don't proclaim the death of nobility. Go and make a difference. Rant over.

http://www.msf.org/
http://www.amnesty.org/
http://www.redcross.org/ (US) http://www.redcross.org.uk/homepage.asp (UK)
http://www.avert.org/
http://www.unicef.org/

[InklingElf]

Originally Posted by Imladris

I think that many people forget (as Rimbaud so accurately pointed out) that Middle Earth isn't as....romantic, as we like to think.

People have said that Middle Earth doesn't have as many problems as the real world. That they have nobility, that they love nature, etc, and it really makes it seem as if this civilization is going to the dogs! (Technically it is, of course, but I believe that everything goes downwards and that we're just closer to the end as it were than in Middle Earth's time.)

See, the thing is is that Middle Earth is the real world (Tolkien wrote it as a mythology) so it has its real problems. The problem of survival, and others that we don't know about because Tolkien didn't go into them.

What about the problems of caste? Remember Sam and calling Frodo sir? Tolkien wrote him as a servant, as an unequal. Of course the relationship gradually changed but that still doesn't change the thinking of inequality.

Also what about the Sackville Bagginses? One still had the irate, selfish, thieving neighbours.

There was even corruption within the governments (Denethor not wanting to give the throne to Elessar and Grima and Theoden). So it wasn't all sunshine and roses.

But there is nobility in this era too. Washington, Joan of Arc, every time a person gives up his own needs/ life for another. That is still alive here. The only reason it's more rampant in Tolkien's legendarium is because he wrote about that one segment of history. We don't hear about the every day stuff.

I guess what I'm saying is that Middle Earth is not problem free. Maybe there's not the problem of pollution etc, but it has its own problems that we'd gripe about as well.

Exactly!Such is the construction of an epic. True, Greenpeace might nearly be out of business in ME but other issues are the bold statements of the renowned trilogy (i.e., honor [in nobility] in this instance)

And yet another quotable Rimbaud paragraph:

Originally Posted by Rimbaud

Every time you help someone selflessly, every time you lend a part of yourself to aid another, nobility is there. Do not deny the inhabitants of the real world their very real dignity, when so many struggle everyday against corrupt forces to improve life for all. If you feel the world you live in is so bereft of human decency and nobilty, then make steps to change it. Don't proclaim the death of nobility. Go and make a difference. Rant over.

[Isowen]

Encaitare, I guess you're right about the rasicm thing, I didn't think about that.

[Sapphire_Flame]

Maybe Middle-earth isn't *better* than Modern-earth, per se; it's just different. What isn't as much of a problem some places here (i.e. hygiene), is more of an issue in Middle-earth (although those elves and Numenoreans are really clever...). And some problems here (i.e. pollution) aren't as bad in M-e (except maybe in Mordor...).

How you view Middle-earth could depend on what you're used to here. Someone from a third-world country would have a very different perception of things were they dropped in, than, say, a spoiled brat from Beverly Hills or NYC (no offense).

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~