Tolkien's Mistakes - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Azaelia of Willowbottom · 08-06-2004, 04:50 PM

This is something that has been bugging me since I got the 3-in1 paperback in 2001...

I'm not sure if this is an error on Tolkien's part or an editing issue. I do know it's a mistake.

In the 1963ish version of LOTR that I read, in the Shadow of the Past chapter, Gandalf translates the Ring-inscription as "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."

In my Houghton-Mifflin paperback 3-in-1 version published 2001, edited by JRRT in 1966ish and his son Christopher since 1974ish (though this edit has only appeared in USA in the Houghton-Mifflin edition-Ballantine remains unchanged, at least according to the Note On The Text- since the 1980's...I'm confused!)

Anyway, in this more- recently-edited version, the translation Gandalf makes is only "One Ring bring them all and in the darkness bind them." (Though it is later translated properly during the Council of Elrond) I'm not sure who edited this, why, or when it happened. I do know it's a mistake. I don't speak Black Speech, but I know enough to know that the words, "ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg grimpatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul" matches up to the 1966 version of Gandalf's translation. (too lazy to type it all out again).

Was there a reason this was changed that I wasn't clued in to, or was a real mistake made (by Tolkien or otherwise)?

Firefoot · 08-06-2004, 06:26 PM

Azaelia, I have the same 3-in-1 version you do, and I have noticed this as well. I think it was probably an error in the printing rather than Tolkien's error.

There is another thread this reminded me of, Continuity Errors in Tolkien. It's not exactly the same, but some people here might be interested in it.

Vanya · 08-06-2004, 07:07 PM

I talked about this with a friend, and she gave a good explanation of use of the name of Sauron. He does use it, since it is well known to his enemies, in the process of negotiation. Remember Dain's story, when nazgul came several times with a message from Sauron, and to ask about hobbits- he uses name Sauron. As for the scene in front of the Morannon, the reason is the same - it is the name known to all the participants, so it is used. Orcs howewer are not alowed to use it (they call him the Eye, or else)

Encaitare · 08-06-2004, 09:23 PM

This isn't Tolkien's error, but it's still something that irritated me. In the movie-based book entitled "Weapons and Warfare" the author says Aragorn lived to be 188, when he really lived to be 210. I checked the appendices and was rather irritated at this oversight. The author knows so much about weaponry and armor and yet makes a blatant error such as this. Blugh.

08-06-2004, 04:50 PM	#1
Azaelia of Willowbottom Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: By the Sea Posts: 446	Not sure... This is something that has been bugging me since I got the 3-in1 paperback in 2001... I'm not sure if this is an error on Tolkien's part or an editing issue. I do know it's a mistake. In the 1963ish version of LOTR that I read, in the Shadow of the Past chapter, Gandalf translates the Ring-inscription as "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them." In my Houghton-Mifflin paperback 3-in-1 version published 2001, edited by JRRT in 1966ish and his son Christopher since 1974ish (though this edit has only appeared in USA in the Houghton-Mifflin edition-Ballantine remains unchanged, at least according to the Note On The Text- since the 1980's...I'm confused!) Anyway, in this more- recently-edited version, the translation Gandalf makes is only "One Ring bring them all and in the darkness bind them." (Though it is later translated properly during the Council of Elrond) I'm not sure who edited this, why, or when it happened. I do know it's a mistake. I don't speak Black Speech, but I know enough to know that the words, "ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg grimpatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul" matches up to the 1966 version of Gandalf's translation. (too lazy to type it all out again). Was there a reason this was changed that I wasn't clued in to, or was a real mistake made (by Tolkien or otherwise)? __________________ "Wherever I have been, I am back." Last edited by Azaelia of Willowbottom; 08-06-2004 at 04:53 PM. Reason: Because I must always edit my posts...

08-06-2004, 07:07 PM	#3
Vanya Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Belgrade Posts: 43	Sauron I talked about this with a friend, and she gave a good explanation of use of the name of Sauron. He does use it, since it is well known to his enemies, in the process of negotiation. Remember Dain's story, when nazgul came several times with a message from Sauron, and to ask about hobbits- he uses name Sauron. As for the scene in front of the Morannon, the reason is the same - it is the name known to all the participants, so it is used. Orcs howewer are not alowed to use it (they call him the Eye, or else)

08-06-2004, 06:26 PM	#2
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	Azaelia, I have the same 3-in-1 version you do, and I have noticed this as well. I think it was probably an error in the printing rather than Tolkien's error. There is another thread this reminded me of, Continuity Errors in Tolkien. It's not exactly the same, but some people here might be interested in it.

08-06-2004, 09:23 PM	#4
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	This isn't Tolkien's error, but it's still something that irritated me. In the movie-based book entitled "Weapons and Warfare" the author says Aragorn lived to be 188, when he really lived to be 210. I checked the appendices and was rather irritated at this oversight. The author knows so much about weaponry and armor and yet makes a blatant error such as this. Blugh.