LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 07 - In the House of Tom Bombadil

[Aiwendil]

Fordim wrote:

The fact that Tom can still Frodo when he is invisible to others is proof positive that the Ring is part of a perverted or subverted nature that Sauron has managed to twist to his own purposes, not the gateway to a whole other realm.

And yet we have a lot of quotes suggesting that the Ring does function like a gateway to another realm - a spirit world, one in which the Elves partially exist and in which the Nazgul primarily exist. Not one that Sauron created, and yet one that is supernatural. Tom is supremely "natural". And he has power over nature. But the Ring is a work of artifice, and a gateway into a supernatural world. So Tom does not have power over it - but it also does not have power over him. It's as though Tom exists entirely on the plane of Nature; he can command, and interact with, other parts of Nature, but all that is unnatural, artificial, or supernatural means nothing to him - it cannot affect him and cannot be affected by him.

This is part of why I find the Tom = Aule idea completely ludicrous. The two are diametrically opposed. Tom is pure Nature and Aule pure Craft.

Rimbaud wrote:

Facetiousness aside, isn't TB in this instance another example of Tolkien's get-out clauses? These include Eagles, Armies of Dead etc...

Impishly or not, I think you've hit on an interesting point. There seem, at first glance, to be a lot of dei ex machinis in Tolkien. Just when things seem completely hopeless, something unexpected will come to the rescue. There's Tom twice, the flood at Bruinen, the Rohirrim attacking the Orc band, Gandalf sent back by Iluvatar, the Huorns at Helm's Deep, the Rohirrim arriving at the Pelennor at dawn. And those are just from LotR. Other prominent examples are the Eagles at the Battle of Five Armies and the Valar at the end of the First Age. Indeed, Tolkien's very notion of "eucatastrophe" would seem to involve this kind of thing.

But if these are really such cop-outs, why doesn't anybody ever seem much bothered by them? Because they're not. There's a difference between unexpected and unprepared. In nearly every case, the thing that comes to the rescue is something that has already been set up. Tom saves the Hobbits at the Barrow-downs only after painstakingly teaching them the proper song for summoning him. We hear about the Rohirrim long before they inadvertently rescue Merry and Pippin. And we know that they are on their way to Minas Tirith even if we don't know when to expect them. Moreover, it is almost always through the actions of established protagonists that the deus is allowed to come out of the machina. Tom doesn't just show up on the Barrow-downs; he must be summoned, and that only after Frodo's heroics (though I admit he does show up completely without warning to save them from OMW). The Valar don't simply change their minds about the Noldor; Earendil has to convince them. The Ents don't act on their own; it takes the prompting of Merry and Pippin.

[Mister Underhill]

A new job has seriously impaired my Downs-time and my ability to keep up with, let alone contribute to, these book discussions. But this:

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

There seem, at first glance, to be a lot of dei ex machinae in Tolkien... Indeed, Tolkien's very notion of "eucatastrophe" would seem to involve this kind of thing.

...made me think of an interesting old conversation on the topic of deus ex machina.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Aiwendil, Tom himself puts his presence at Old Man Willow best:

'Just chance brought me then, if chance you call it. It was no plan of mine, though I was waiting for you.'

Tom = Nature indeed! Here he is admitting that his comings and goings are at one with the 'chance' of circumstance in the created world, and that he is part of (perhaps even subject to?) the "plan."

Another thought has occured to me: in an earlier thread we spoke briefly about women and the pattern that emerges as Frodo moves from feminine refuge to feminine refuge. The first step in this pattern was Mrs. Maggot (the next 'rest' at Crickhollow, and entirely masculine affair, was singularly unsafe and unrestful, as we noted), and now we reach the second occurence in the pattern with Goldberry.

We've already noted the connections between Tom and Maggot, but are there connections between Goldberry and Mrs. Maggot? Both are associated with light, both are associated with domesticity (without being domesticated), both provide nourishment. What is it about the women characters (so far at least) that allows the hobbits to feel so safe, in a way that is perhaps more profound than with men?

[Rimbaud]

Aiwendil - And in many of those cases I agree; but it is an undeniable trait. There have been comments on the issue, even on this forum, especially with regard to the Eagles. And to be honest, it was not really a complaint, more of an observation.

I like your link to eucatastrophe, and I think it is a valid one. I would take this further slightly, and perhaps somewhat off the tone of the thread, and argue that these gods from the machines are less actual gods, or Valar etc, than Tolkien's notion of the hand of fate (as applicable in ME). Fate has been discussed explicitly here on this forum, and now perhaps is not the time for a full-fledged rehash.

However, I will suggest that Tolkien's fairly prescriptive (with reference to Middle-Earth only, let's not have a theological debate on Catholicism and free-will just yet) fate for the Ring and its bearers/seekers is ushered politely along by these Acts. It is perhaps the combination of the event itself and fate's guidance another step down the path when combined with the heroism (inadvertent or not) of the protaganists that is the essence of T's eucatastrophe. It's a combination of choice and powerlessness, leading to success.

A weak analogy is luck in an everyday affair. You kick a football, and no matter how much skill you possess, no player in the world would score without an element of luck, and they know it. It is that combination of power and powerlessness that is the key... I've veered a long way from Tom.

Bringing it back, you are right to point out that calling Tom for help was a choice and to some degree a skill that the Hobbits had to perform, and therefore perhaps not a genuine 'rabbit-out-of-a-hat' get-out clause. However, I would still see him in this way, despite the build up - and distinct from your Rohirrim example above, which I agree is adequately foreshadowed. I will admit though that this unwillingness to see Tom as a 'fair' plot point has its roots in many other matters.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

It's as though Tom exists entirely on the plane of Nature; he can command, and interact with, other parts of Nature, but all that is unnatural, artificial, or supernatural means nothing to him - it cannot affect him and cannot be affected by him.

I lean towards this idea of Tom as existing 'entirely on the plane of Nature', but then how to explain his power over the Barrow Wight?

And did Tolkien ever explain the nature of the 'otherworld' - how much of a 'world' is it - are there locations within it, for instance, that don't correspond with any place in this 'dimension'? Or is it some kind of 'archetypal' dimension, like the 'matrix' out of which this dimension is formed?

[mark12_30]

the good (elf-friend) and the evil (the ring in his voice).

Fordim: a bit late, but I didn't catch this til Fingolfin quoted it: "ring in his voice" refers to the timbre, the tonal quality of his voice; the joy, firmness, and power in it. Not to 'the Ring' that Frodo carried. Her reference to "the light in your eyes and the ring in your voice" compares him to elvishness in both cases; they have shining eyes and clear musical voices; so does he.



1. To sound, as a bell or other sonorous body, particularly a metallic one.
...
3. To sound loud; to resound; to be filled with a ringing or reverberating sound.
...
4. To continue to sound or vibrate; to resound.

[Aiwendil]

Davem wrote:

I lean towards this idea of Tom as existing 'entirely on the plane of Nature', but then how to explain his power over the Barrow Wight?

Er . . . yes. Well, I didn't think of that. He clearly does have power to command the Barrow-wight, and the Barrow-wight is about as supernatural as one can get. I can't think of much to say to that except that my theory appears to be quite incorrect.

[mark12_30]

There's nature and there's Nature. The Elves are extremely natural, yet they exist in both the shadow-world (the wraith-world, one might call it, except that elves are there too) and they also exist in the "normal, physical world".

I think, Aiwendil, that we will have another one of those divisions similar to the division over truth versus Truth. Maybe it's my Vineyard background! But some of us will say that "Naturally Supernatural" sounds perfectly reasonable, while others will balk at the phrase and call it an iherently illogical contradiction in terms.

Personally, I see no problem with Tom being 'Naturally Supernatural', and having a 'naturally supernatural' power over the Barrow-Wight. In the same vein, the elves' magic is more like Art; it is Natural; it is not about Power, yet it is Powerful.

There was a carpenter like that once.

[Aiwendil]

Mark12_30 wrote:

Personally, I see no problem with Tom being 'Naturally Supernatural', and having a 'naturally supernatural' power over the Barrow-Wight. In the same vein, the elves' magic is more like Art; it is Natural; it is not about Power, yet it is Powerful.

Yes, to a degree I can accept this. But something still makes me uneasy. There is, I think, throughout the Legendarium a contrast drawn between the natural and the artificial, between Nature and Art. It is the difference between the Avari and the Noldor, the difference between Gandalf and Saruman, the difference between Ulmo and Aule, the difference between Finarfin and Feanor. The Elves' magic is Art, which is to say "artificial" - i.e. works of artifice, of skill. Now I don't see any problem with the Elves also appreciating and representing the Natural side of things - no real person can be all artifice or all nature. But I had thought of Tom as representing the purely Natural, without any of the "learned", without any of the curwe so prized by Aule and Feanor. And I think that the simple and obvious fact that he has a power of command over the Barrow-wight poses problems for that view. Also, there's his singing - indeed, it seems unlikely that anything in Arda could be completely devoid of connections with Art, since the world was created in the Ainulindale.

Sorry if that's not very coherent; I'm thinking and typing at the same time.

[HerenIstarion]

Aiwendil - Art as it is forms a part of Nature. After all, the Nature itself is created = act of art. Art rightfully employed = sub creation = imitation of the first Act of Art. Only perverted art, one not conforming to natural pattern, is opposed to Nature.

Besides, it may be argued that only humans when dead leave Nature behind, as they leave the Circles of the World. All else, including ghost world of wraiths, is inside it, though on different plane. Hence, only Supernatural acts (=miracles) are those coming outside of it - i.e. interventions of Eru - Numenor case, resurrection of Gandalf, and the case of Bilbo finding the Ring. Even in those cases, pattern is natural - the island is overflowed, the body is not destroyed, the finding of the ring is, well, just chance-finding.

Dratted lack of time, so I must refer you to, instead of developing it on the spot:

Evil Things
Acceptance of Mythology

Those do not deal directly with the issue in hand, but touch upon it as well

cheers