Reclaiming a Throne

[Kuruharan]

it is just said that he ruled the remnant of the Noldor

Actually, that is a very good point, one I’d overlooked, at least so far as Finarfin never explicitly being referred to as king. However, this brings up the whole tangle of potential rulers that others have already alluded to.

True they could have, but they didn't.

Are you reasoning from some particular evidence, or simply from the fact that we don’t know about it happening?

Anyway, by the time of the third age, a high king of the noldor probably wasn't necessary. The title of high king came about due to the fact that the noldor needed a united resistance against morgoth. After morgoth was overthrown Gil Galad remained so he kept his title. After the last alliance both Morgoth and sauron were overthrown and the elves had no real enemy (at that time anyway) so the position of high king was no longer needed in order to lead a united resistance.

There are a few problems with this. The term “High King” was not explicitly used in Valinor because there was only one king of the Noldor, (or Vanyar, or Teleri). However, the position of king of the Noldor existed in Valinor before the rebellion and presumably after the exiles started returning. Ingwe (for instance) was not dethroned just because Morgoth and/or Sauron was overthrown. The position was one of great honor and stature. Obviously in Valinor there would be little need of a king for military purposes. The king was probably the symbolic head of the people. There is no reason to suppose the office was discontinued.

Anyway, Finwe was never coming out so the only one who could claim leadership of the noldor was Fingolfin.

I may have missed something somewhere, but I did not know that any extraordinary prohibition had been placed on Finwe.

[Fingolfin II]

I may have missed something somewhere, but I did not know that any extraordinary prohibition had been placed on Finwe.

I think that it is said in 'Laws and Customs of the Eldar' (Morgoth's Ring- HoME series) that Finwe could not leave Mandos, since Miriel has chosen to leave, and therefore if Finwe leaves then he would have two wives; something that is not allowed by the Eldar. Thus is he can't leave Mandos, he obviously can't rule the Noldor in Valinor.

[Kuruharan]

Ah, now that you mention it that does sound vaguely familiar.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

And Voralphion, if only male decendants can become king, explain the Kings and Queens of Numenor The elfs could have easily done what Tar-Aldarion did and change the rules of sucession. (Perky Ent)

Could a Noldor High-King have changed the laws of succession? Let's look at how Tar-Aldarion changed the Númenórean system.

His only child is a daughter. He loves his daughter, so he changes the laws. The people weren't upset. Ergo, the changed rules remain.

Would that same series of events happen to a Elven King? Not yet, so the High-Kingship still passes through male lines. Gil-galad didn't change it in favour of Elrond, despite the fact that he's heirless, and he's going into battle.

Now that I think of it, if Elves pass Ruler-ship through female lines, then Galadriel, cousin of Turgon, would be ruler after Gil-galad. Not Elrond.


About the original question, I found this tidbit in the King Elrond? thread.

It is possible that Elrond did not want the kingship, and any such title would have been purely nominal after the death of Gil-galad. It is also noted in The Problem of Ros in PoME that Elrond actually prefered to reckon his lineage to Thingol instead of Turgon. (Tar Elenion)

The title High-King of the Noldor would have been nominal after the Second Age. Eregion, the largest Noldorin region outside Lindon, is gone, along with almost all its population. The Noldor of Lindon continuously sail for Aman. Who's left to rule?

If you say "What about the other Elves?", well, they have their own rulers.

[Kuruharan]

Now that I think of it, if Elves pass Ruler-ship through female lines, then Galadriel, cousin of Turgon, would be ruler after Gil-galad. Not Elrond.

Bingo!!

[Saurreg]

Gil-galad's/Elrond's Lineage

Has Christopher Tolkien stated that was a mistake during the compilation of the Silmarillion in regards to the lineage of Gil-galad and that the right family line was published in HoME?

Silmarillion Family Line:

Finwë-> Fingolfin -> Fingon -> Gil-galad

HoME Family Line (From Wikipedia?):

Finwë -> Finärfin -> Angrod -> Orodreth -> Gil-galad

That would mean that the last High-King of Middle Earth was descended from House Finarfin and not House Fingolfin, no? If that is the case, does that mean that kingship is interchangeable between the three princely houses of the Noldor? Proponents of the above idea may argue that after the exodus of House Fëanor and House Fingolfin from Aman, Finärfin assumed kingship of what was left of the Noldor in Aman. If kingship inheritance was strictly confined within each ruling house, then Finärfin could not have been king - steward or regent perhaps but not High King.

The disinheritance of House Fëanor is debatable and can be used as leverage for both opponents and proponents of the idea of interchangeability. Maedhros, rightful High King after Fëanor willingly surrendered kingship to Fingolfin and thus the second princely house of the Noldor inherited the crown. The question is, did Maedhros relinquish his office because it was Noldorim law that the crown must be held by the next eldest Prince after Fëanor (regardless of house) which, was Fingolfin or did Maedhros exercise some extraordinary kingly powers and thus disinherited his own house?

The above is worth debating because of Elrond's lineage;

Finwë -> Fingolfin -> Turgon -> Idril -> Eärendil (Half-elven) -> Elrond (Half-elven)

If we assume that Gil-galad's lineage from HoME was correct and that the Silmarillion was wrong and that the kingship can only be passed within the same House, then it would explain why Turgon became High-King after Fingon (Fingon would have no known descendant in HoME) and hence Turgon being the next eldest in the House of Fingolfin would assume the throne.

The question of whether Elves had a Salic Law (no females may assume kingship)or not is a good one. After Turgon dies, Idril would have assumed the high office if there was no Salic Law. But strangely enough, Gil-galad became the next and last High King. That indicates that unless Idril exercised the same power that Maedhros did and disinherited kingship from House Turgon, some sort of Salic Law was in play here and because there was no direct male descendant in House Turgon anymore, the crown must pass to the next House - that of House Finärfin in Middle Earth. Angrod and Orodreth perished before Turgon but Galadriel was still alive and unless she forfited her claim or was prevented to claim the crown by some law, she would have became the next soveriegn of the Noldor because she out-ranked Gil-galad in terms of lineage.

Eärendil is abit of dilemma for proponents of the everything-goes-within-the-same-house faction. But there is now a very strong case of elven Salic law at play here and it disinherited Idril and hence her entire line afterwards (Tuor can be prince regent but not King because he was not of Turgon's blood). Opponents of the above school of thought would either argue that Idril volunteeringly surrendered her claim and hence disinherited Eärendil and Elrond or that because both were only half-elven with lesser degrees of elven blood, the crown must be held by by some one of full elven blood. In either way, it spelled the end of inheritance by House fingolfin as we know it. And by combining the idea that the kingship was interchangeable between houses and that there was some sort of a Salic Law at play, Gil-galad became the only candidate left by default. And when he died, the line of Noldorin High Kings in Middle Earth came to an end.