The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth

[Kuruharan]

The question I'd ask is, whether massacring a surrendered army would inspire terror or desperation.

Ah, and a question of long standing it is too. It puts me in mind of the Mytilenian Debate in Thucydides.

I don't think Sauron would want to create a situation where his enemies felt they had nothing to lose, & would be slaughtered anyway. That would make them desperate, & they'd fight to the death.

Possibly. But it might also reduce his enemies to mindless gibbering wretches. Both have happened.

Would he become effectively God on earth, able to manipulate reality, cause his enemies to blink out of existence, etc - would it be absolute power, or would he simply become far stronger than anyone else, so that victory over him became virtually impossible.

I tend toward the latter. I think that Sauron’s reality bending days were behind him. That being said, if he regained the Ring nothing short of divine intervention was going to unseat him.

Perhaps it was a more complex matter - Sauron knew (or feared) that the Valar would intervene if he embarked on mass slaughter - would they stand back & allow the Eruhini to be obliterated?

I never meant to imply that he would massacre all the non-orcs in the world. He had obviously not done so in the lands he already ruled (although, one would likely find precious few Elves there). I did mean to imply that he would massacre every member of the Army of the West that had the impudence to knock on his door.

Hopefully, that clarifies my position on that matter a little.

Rereading the final paragraph of my last post I came to the startling realization that I had laughably failed to make my intended point but had instead said something completely inane.

What I intended to say was that tales of ofermod can be used in such a way. Ofermod itself can generally only be used to cause the loss of said relatives.

I hope that clarifies as well.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I hope that clarifies as well.

It does. I think I veer too much towards the 'poetic' side of things - I agree that, from the practical pov you are correct. Ofermod is too dangerous & destructive to be allowed out into the 'primary' world - especially these days. It belongs in the world of poetry & legend, & that's the source of too many things that we wouldn't want straying into the waking world. Didn't someone once remark that 'even Gollum would be good in a story' - but you wouldn't want to run into him down a dark alley!

Its an odd thing though, that like Dragons, we love to enter into the legendary world but would be terrified if its inhabitants strayed into ours. Even our maddest dreams can seem logical, fascinating, places - while we're dreaming. Its only when we awaken that we step back, analyse them & realise their craziness. To carry over a point I made in the 'Old Forest' thread, we're not Frodos, who seem to have strayed into this world by accident, & only really belong in the Dreamtime - we're Sam's, who love the dreamworld, & happily, even eagerly, stray into it, but know how to keep it in its place, & can avoid being overwhelmed by its 'glamour'.

So, I suppose we can all admire ofermod, like dragons & elves & wizards, as long as they stay in their own world. Ofermod in this world would, & has, caused as much devastation as a troop of dragons would. It belongs in the world of heroes, where we can (at least secretly) admire it.

[Joy]

Thank you all for your comments here.

I had to leave again due to health shortly after making this post. I am going to have to go back and throughly re-read all these posts.

You all have given some wonderful information for me to sort through.