The "evil" animals of ME - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

zifnab · 03-13-2002, 12:27 PM

The swan part in “Of Tour and his coming to Gondolin”, isnt very important but it seems to me that Tuor, was drawn to the Sea, and tallied to long on the shores watching the waves. The swans seem to come at a good time before winter to tempt Tuor away from the shores of the mighty sea.

“And one day, as Tuor sat upon the shore, he heard the rush and whine of great wings, and he looked up and saw seven white swans flying in a swift wedge southward. But as they came above him they wheeled and flew suddenly down, and alighted with a great plash and churning of water.
Now Tuor loved swans, which he knew on the grey pools of Mithrim; and the swan moreover had been the token of Annael and his foster-folk. He rose therefore to greet the birds, and called to them, marveling to behold that they were greater and prouder than any of the kind that he had seen before; but they beat their wings and uttered harsh cries, as if they were wroth with him and would drive him from the shore. Then with a great noise they rose again from the water and flew above his head, so that the rush of their wings blew upon him as a whistling wind; and wheeling in a wide circle they ascended into the high air and went away south.
Then Tuor cried aloud: “Here now comes another sign that I have tarried too long!”

Yes, I see what you mean buy a shape-shifter is a tad bit different then a normal animal. But Beorn’s house comes to mind too, If I remember correctly, his house servants were all animals. They must have truly loved him to help out so much. Maybe he protected them from evil? But I don’t think they were slaves, or were terrified of him.

Oliphants and Elephants I believe are two separate species. The Oliphant, being the larger more “war-like” one of the two. Elephants are mentioned twice in the Hobbit:

“….except the ordinary everyday sort which helps them to disappear quietly and quickly when large stupid folk like you and me come blundering along, making a noise like elephants which they can hear a mile off.”

"Great Elephants!" said Gandalf, "you are not at all yourself this morning-you have never dusted the mantel- piece!"

Here is a nice quote from the Silm, it fits with my earlier thought about Men and Elves being able to communicate with animals. I believe at one time, Beren knew the voice of the animals.

Celegorm went rather to the house of Oromë, and there he got great knowledge of birds and beasts, and all their tongues he knew. For all living things that are or have been in the Kingdom of Arda, save only the fell and evil creatures of Melkor, lived then in the land of Aman; and there also were many other creatures that have not been seen upon Middle-earth, and perhaps never now shall be, since the fashion of the world was changed.

I see what you mean by, “Lack of good animals”, in LOTR. It does appear to have less animals helping then hurting. But I think it say’s, “The characters must go on, with or without help”. The struggle is deep, hard and intense. I think the lack of animals helping out, does not hinder the LOTR, as it is still a fantastic novel.

I think a good example of one of Tolkien’s work that is animal influenced is “The adventures of Tom Bombadil”. They are mostly just silly short stories, poems. But “Tom goes Boating”, is a great one about Tom and the animals. It really is a great read, even though it doesn’t have much to do with M-E or LOTR.

Just a small part of “Tom goes Boating”.

Rings swirled round his boat, he saw the bubbles quiver.
Tom slapped his oar, smack! at a shadow in the river.
'Hoosh! Tom Bombadil! 'Tis long since last I met you.
Turned water-boatman, eh? What if I upset you?'

'What? Why, Whisker-lad, I'd ride you down the river.
My fingers on your back would set your hide a-shiver.'
'Pish, Tom Bombadil! I'll go and tell my mother;
"Call all our kin to come, father, sister, brother!
Tom's gone mad as a coot with wooden legs: he's paddling
down Withywindle stream, an old tub a-straddling!"'

'I'll give your otter-fell to Barrow-wights. They'll taw you!
Then smother you in gold-rings! Your mother if she saw you,
she'd never know her son, unless 'twas by a whisker.
Nay, don't tease old Tom, until you be far brisker!'

'Whoosh! said otter-lad, river-water spraying
over Tom's hat and all; set the boat a-swaying,
dived down under it, and by the bank lay peering,
till Tom's merry song faded out of hearing.

[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: zifnab ]

03-13-2002, 12:27 PM	#1
zifnab Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: omni-presence Posts: 329	The swan part in “Of Tour and his coming to Gondolin”, isnt very important but it seems to me that Tuor, was drawn to the Sea, and tallied to long on the shores watching the waves. The swans seem to come at a good time before winter to tempt Tuor away from the shores of the mighty sea. “And one day, as Tuor sat upon the shore, he heard the rush and whine of great wings, and he looked up and saw seven white swans flying in a swift wedge southward. But as they came above him they wheeled and flew suddenly down, and alighted with a great plash and churning of water. Now Tuor loved swans, which he knew on the grey pools of Mithrim; and the swan moreover had been the token of Annael and his foster-folk. He rose therefore to greet the birds, and called to them, marveling to behold that they were greater and prouder than any of the kind that he had seen before; but they beat their wings and uttered harsh cries, as if they were wroth with him and would drive him from the shore. Then with a great noise they rose again from the water and flew above his head, so that the rush of their wings blew upon him as a whistling wind; and wheeling in a wide circle they ascended into the high air and went away south. Then Tuor cried aloud: “Here now comes another sign that I have tarried too long!” Yes, I see what you mean buy a shape-shifter is a tad bit different then a normal animal. But Beorn’s house comes to mind too, If I remember correctly, his house servants were all animals. They must have truly loved him to help out so much. Maybe he protected them from evil? But I don’t think they were slaves, or were terrified of him. Oliphants and Elephants I believe are two separate species. The Oliphant, being the larger more “war-like” one of the two. Elephants are mentioned twice in the Hobbit: “….except the ordinary everyday sort which helps them to disappear quietly and quickly when large stupid folk like you and me come blundering along, making a noise like elephants which they can hear a mile off.” "Great Elephants!" said Gandalf, "you are not at all yourself this morning-you have never dusted the mantel- piece!" Here is a nice quote from the Silm, it fits with my earlier thought about Men and Elves being able to communicate with animals. I believe at one time, Beren knew the voice of the animals. Celegorm went rather to the house of Oromë, and there he got great knowledge of birds and beasts, and all their tongues he knew. For all living things that are or have been in the Kingdom of Arda, save only the fell and evil creatures of Melkor, lived then in the land of Aman; and there also were many other creatures that have not been seen upon Middle-earth, and perhaps never now shall be, since the fashion of the world was changed. I see what you mean by, “Lack of good animals”, in LOTR. It does appear to have less animals helping then hurting. But I think it say’s, “The characters must go on, with or without help”. The struggle is deep, hard and intense. I think the lack of animals helping out, does not hinder the LOTR, as it is still a fantastic novel. I think a good example of one of Tolkien’s work that is animal influenced is “The adventures of Tom Bombadil”. They are mostly just silly short stories, poems. But “Tom goes Boating”, is a great one about Tom and the animals. It really is a great read, even though it doesn’t have much to do with M-E or LOTR. Just a small part of “Tom goes Boating”. Rings swirled round his boat, he saw the bubbles quiver. Tom slapped his oar, smack! at a shadow in the river. 'Hoosh! Tom Bombadil! 'Tis long since last I met you. Turned water-boatman, eh? What if I upset you?' 'What? Why, Whisker-lad, I'd ride you down the river. My fingers on your back would set your hide a-shiver.' 'Pish, Tom Bombadil! I'll go and tell my mother; "Call all our kin to come, father, sister, brother! Tom's gone mad as a coot with wooden legs: he's paddling down Withywindle stream, an old tub a-straddling!"' 'I'll give your otter-fell to Barrow-wights. They'll taw you! Then smother you in gold-rings! Your mother if she saw you, she'd never know her son, unless 'twas by a whisker. Nay, don't tease old Tom, until you be far brisker!' 'Whoosh! said otter-lad, river-water spraying over Tom's hat and all; set the boat a-swaying, dived down under it, and by the bank lay peering, till Tom's merry song faded out of hearing. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: zifnab ] __________________ Facebook.